Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Must be a lack of coffee, because now I am really confused. So some clients stuff on Manhub is there with the sponsor permission, but not all of their stuff is? Gray doesn’t begin to describe it lol
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
And this is the point. If sponsor’s didn’t license their stuff to tube sites we wouldn’t be having this conversation and it would be a very clear line between legal and illegal content. But when over half the files we find are from our clients licensing their content to tube sites like these guys, that line gets irrevocably blurred. That’s what sucks the most.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
None of the producers I’ve spoken to have licensed content to Manhub.
[QUOTE=DominicFord;132931]
As rawTop mentioned, Marc Randazza said on the Ethics panel (which I was on and spoke about these topics at length!!) that he refers tube sites and other such sites to us. Our hope is to put best practices in place in these companies and tell them that simply responding to DMCAs is not enough: they need to pro-acively make sure they aren’t hosting illegal content. So far none have hired us to do that, but I am looking forward to the day one does. I believe it could instantly change the way tubes work.[/QUOTE]
You mean the same Marc Randazza who now works for BangBros / ManHub?
You have to excuse me if I’m not convinced. Before Porn Guardian we have a very similar incident with another anti-piracy company who insisted there was no problem or conflict of interest when representing both the pirates and the producers.
Having a page containing a long list of clients isn’t the same thing as transparency and certainly doesn’t mean people are aware of who you’re working with. Do you really think clients regularly go back and read the entire list? The impression I had when speaking to a few producers was that they did not know Manhub’s owners was your client.
[QUOTE=DominicFord;132931]
If gay-torrents.ru came to us tomorrow and said “I want to go clean, help me do that” I would. Why? Because I believe they are of the worst, most evil sites out there. And fixing them would change the landscape for the industryl.[/QUOTE]
Sounds very nice and rosy, but neither gay-torrents or manhub are ignorant or stupid. They know exactly what they are doing wrong and in Manhub’s case I would go as far as saying using stolen videos is a part of their business strategy. They must have at some point discussed the problem with copyright theft and chosen to ignore it.
People have put a lot of trust in Porn Guardian and think very highly of you. By you handing Manhub or other problem sites the “all clear”, you’re validating their site and company. You’re clearing them of all wrong doing and ignoring how they got where they are now. You’re essentially offering a service to clean someone’s reputation on demand. Anyone can just build up their site using stolen content and when they are big enough just come to you and pay a fee to come clean.
Rawtop might think this isn’t my business and should be ignored. But I feel there is a need to highlight what I think is wrong. But don’t worry, I won’t criticize your new business strategy any further. Hopefully whoever you’re taking advice from knows what’s good for your company.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
As I said and continue to say it’s a very large shell game…with a lot of slight of hand thrown in. Mentalist or magician? Take your pick.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
I am interested in the whole “licensing” aspect here. Are we talking about clips / teasers / trailers or entire films? I think this needs clarifying because while many sponsors allow promo content to be used on ManHub (as they do other tubes) they don’t license entire films, or at least that’s my position and understanding!
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
I was just thinking the same thing. Didn’t one of the largest players in this business start off as complete and utter pirates, which earned them money to start building their legit business and buy up everything that went up for sale? (I won’t name names in case I got my facts wrong.)
So essentially, there are no consequences for being a shitty player in this business, all you have to do is say “We’re sorry” (at least publicly) and everyone is supposed to forgive you.
Actually I’m not surprised … AVS got it its start this way, so nothing has really changed except the players and who is on top at the moment. And I’m a fucking idiot because I actually bought content for my AVS sites while the majority of others just stole it and made a fortune. God, I really am a fucking stupid tool! Apparently piracy does pay, and quite handsomely.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
So basically Manhub are all good because they no longer steal from Porn Guardian clients. Everyone else they are stealing from, tough shit. And those of you who do not produce content should concern yourself with other things as your opinion on this matter is irrelevant. You are just butt-hurt jealous competition. One day, if you are lucky, St. Steve will buy you drinks and make it all better.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Jean Lafitte who lived off of the coast of Louisiana in a sheltered Bay named Barataria Bay. He was often called a gentleman pirate and walked around New Orleans without being afraid of capture…Aarrr Billy, history often repeats itself.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Um, NO one said they are OK. I simply said that a lot of content people on this board think are stolen is actually licensed. That’s not to say anything else about their content. People are really blowing this up into a much bigger deal. I just went to their homepage and the only full-length scene I could easily identify as being from a production company is an “Out in Public” movie, which they have the license to use. But if you look in their premium area, all of the Bel Ami, Lucas Entertainment, and CockyBoys videos (as an example) are legit. And sadly, they DO respond to DMCAs fairly well, which is why you don’t see a lot showing up on Google reports. If the movie is down before Google gets to it, then they reject the DMCA. Do I think they could be doing better? HELL YES. Do I want to help them do better? HELL YES. And maybe one day they will want us (or someone else) to help them with that. And you should want them to do better. And until then, we will DMCA them every 15 minutes like we do everyone else, and are happy to put together evidence so our clients can all sue them in a court of law, as we do for lots of sites! We used Oron’s direct takedown tool to “help rid them of piracy” up until the day we helped our clients get them shut down for good.
The sad truth is that most of the big guys (Gamma, Manwin, etc) all started out in piracy. And some (like those two) still run advertising networks that place ads on pirate sites. I have screamed from the top of mountains about this. But would you have us stop representing Falcon, Hot House and others because their parent company (or online partner) has an ad network that should (in my opinion) be better controlled? Or, a better question, will you stop promoting all the Gamma sites, men.com, and many other sites who have business relationships with folks who also have tubes or ad networks that are uncontrolled? And what about sites that advertise directly on pirate sites? We’ve tried to get them to stop but they won’t because they are getting subscribers. So is that bad or good? They are turning pirates into subscribers, but they are also giving money to pirate sites. I say it’s bad. They don’t.
I believe we are on the good side of this, not the bad side. As you can see, there are some strange bedfellows in the industry, especially as companies have merged and acquired. But I think we are charting the course as best as we can to keep our ethics in check.
Dominic
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
As far as I know pretty much all of our clients that are represented in the manhub premium section are fully licensed. That’s full-length scenes and DVDS.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
So most of your clients license FULL LENGTH VIDEOS to pirates, whille doling out 2 minute trailers to affiliates and blaster huge watermarks on their photos so they are basically useless to us. No wonder we can’t make a fucking dime, they give the shop away to the crooks, while hamstringing us, the ones who helped make them? :bang:
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Not most of our clients, but there are some who do this. I agree, we shouldn’t be blurring the lines and giving tube sites licenses.
And as I said before, we (and I specifically) have a pristine reputation in this industry and have worked very hard to keep it that way. If this one client is going to mar that (without showing us that they are taking real steps to pro-actively stop piracy) then I would rather just drop them. It’s certainly not worth staining our/my reputation over.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Um … Out in Public is a Haze Cash site, which is all a part of the same company.
[QUOTE=“DominicFord;132962”]
Um, NO one said they are OK. I simply said that a lot of content people on this board think are stolen is actually licensed. …
…I believe we are on the good side of this, not the bad side. As you can see, there are some strange bedfellows in the industry, especially as companies have merged and acquired. But I think we are charting the course as best as we can to keep our ethics in check.
Dominic[/QUOTE]
Well said Dominic. Well said.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Too late, I’m afraid.
I get what you’re saying about wanting to turn pirates into better corporate citizens, but eventually what you’re saying to the rest of us is that there are no consequences for a being a bad citizen in the first place.
Essentially, I might as well load up Joe Spunk with stolen content, build my empire until I become big and my bank account gets fat, then I can say, “Sorry, I want to be good now” and all we be forgiven. Is that the message that you’re sending to us? That’s certainly the message I’m taking away from all of this.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
“Even though he wasn’t American, Lafitte watched the new country with great admiration and ordered his entire fleet never to attack an American ship. The one time a pirate disregarded his order, Lafitte killed the guy himself. He was also known for treating captured crew well and sometimes returning their ships if they weren’t fit for pirating. Lafitte was a hero among the people of New Orleans, since his smuggling operation allowed them to buy stuff they otherwise couldn’t afford.”
Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_19353_the-7-most-terrifying-pirates-from-history.html#ixzz2RDuxMXNf
It’s funny how history repeats itself…
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
[QUOTE=dzinerbear;132971]Too late, I’m afraid.
I get what you’re saying about wanting to turn pirates into better corporate citizens, but eventually what you’re saying to the rest of us is that there are no consequences for a being a bad citizen in the first place.
Essentially, I might as well load up Joe Spunk with stolen content, build my empire until I become big and my bank account gets fat, then I can say, “Sorry, I want to be good now” and all we be forgiven. Is that the message that you’re sending to us? That’s certainly the message I’m taking away from all of this.[/QUOTE]
That’s not what I’m intending to say at all. Even if a company vows to do better they need to be held accountable for their past. On a daily basis we work with our clients to put together evidence so they can sue companies for their horrible past.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
So exactly what does “held accountable” mean? Are we all getting a reparation cheque in the mail? Are we getting a public apology? “Held accountable” seems to be a fairly hollow phrase that doesn’t really mean anything.
For instance, if I stole a car last week, and I decide this week I’m not going to steal any more cars, the police are very likely still going to want to arrest me and make me pay for my crimes either with a jail sentence or some probation time or something. That’s being “held accountable.”
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Dominic,
One last thing and then I’m going to drop this for a while. I have been a long-standing supporter of Porn Guardian. I was one of your earlier clients and I sung your praises to anyone who would listen, and I’m certain that I got you quite a few clients.
I may be wrong on this, but I think I even suggested to Bjorn that a free banner on Gay Demon would be a great way to show support of Porn Guardian on this community.
I have regularly and consistently fed your partner Peter with information and link to pirates.
I understand your reasons for wanting to convert pirates to good corporate citizens, but I feel betrayed. Pure and simple. Totally and utterly betrayed.
Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?
Once a pirate, always a pirate.
[video=youtube_share;wwKhDML-3ow]http://youtu.be/wwKhDML-3ow[/video]