ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

In a previous discussion some of us noticed how ManHub.com (owned by Haze Cash / Bangbros) are using a huge amount of stolen videos which they then charge surfers a premium membership to download. We also found a post on this forum where Scuba Steve, a ManHub/Haze Cash rep encourage affiliates to stop complaining about ManHub and instead make money on promoting those same premium memberships, or as he says:

you can harp on how it (manhub.com) ruins everything or actually make money by promoting manhub premium

ManHub.com also gives their affiliates a content feed which makes it possible to import videos automatically from ManHub to use on their own sites as a way of promoting them. Of course that means affiliates are also importing lots of stolen videos and start spreading it further.

As an affiliate I don’t understand how ManHub gets away with it… they use stolen videos and charge for downloading them. If I had done the same, I would be labelled as pirate and sued for damages and copyright infringement. Why does that not happen to ManHub? Are they too big? It gives us affiliates the wrong message, it shows that if you want to grow and get big you need to steal and use whatever means necessary.

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

This tube has well over 5,000 full length videos, most of them from sponsors. And it is really alarming that rather then giving sponsors credit for sales, they instead choose to sell their ‘ManHub Premium’ service to sell ‘free downloads,’ which actually charge the surfers over $130 in hidden cross sales (if they don’t read the fine print off to the side of the page in small letters). This site is unscrupulous; to have the gall of ripping off Producers and Customers, gaining traffic unethically (thus stealing traffic from legitimate tube sites) and then basically telling Affiliates to either accept it and promote them or ‘fuck off.’

We’ve banned them from our program and have been reporting our files to PornGuardian, as has SouthernStrokes. As mentioned in the .xxx thread it is possible for sponsors and affiliates to make a difference if we work together. So why are sponsors allowing this? There are dozens of legitimate tube sites to get traffic and sales from; so the argument that we have to ‘accept it’ in order to make money is bullshit.

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

Okay guys, enough complaining. It’s time to put up or shut up. This problem needs collective action and not more complaining on a webmaster board.

The only way to handle this situation is for site owners to organize. They need a leader. That person needs to contact as many sponsors as possible to sign on to a program of action. Once you have something like 30 sponsors who are willing to demand all their videos be pulled from these unethical tubes unless your concerns are addressed, then you go to the tube owner with this list and you say, “Unless you meet these demands, these 30 sites are going to email you and request you remove all of their videos and they’re going to cancel your affiliate accounts.”

That’s the only way this is going to get resolved. DMCA’ing them doesn’t work because they just pull down the video and say, “Sorry … database error … a surfer uploaded and we didn’t catch it … or thanks for letting us know we don’t even know how that happened.”

Any sponsor who agrees to be on the list and then doesn’t follow through by requesting their videos be removed should then be outted, you know like scab workers are targeted during a strike.

Danny, you keep pointing to the .xxx scenario and how we can accomplish things collectively. I’ll give you another example. I have become the self-appointed loud mouth on the affiliate cookie issue. When I posted the list of the board, a couple of sponsors immediately changed their cookies. When the list was expanded recently several more changed their cookies. I have also emailed a couple of site owners and they’ve changed them, too.

I may not be popular with some sponsors and I’m sure others are bitching about that fucking dzinerbear, and a few others have complained about how this board has become bitchy towards sponsors. But seriously, things are out of control on a number of fronts in this business and the only way to get things changed is to talk about them publicly, shame people into making changes, and organize yourselves so you can proceed with a pronged attack.

Affiliates have been sitting back and “taking it” in a number of different ways, I think that I’ve showed that when they speak up they can affect change. Sponsors can do the same.

One or two sponsors cancelling their accounts means nothing to these guys, they probably just say, “Oh well, they didn’t sell many memberships anyway. Who cares?” But 20, 30, 40, 0r 50 sponsors will start to get their attention.

So, who is going to spearhead this project and get things moving?

As a small affiliate, I have no power, but I will no longer be promoting any Haze Cash property. I’ll be going through my blogs and starting to pull down their posts. I hope other affiliates will do the same. Affiliates might not like the idea of losing income, but big properties like Manhub are already chomping into our revenues, so why help them?

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Another thing about the whole Manhub scenario. Isn’t Manhub really just a different kind of Mancheck, Adult Check, UGAS. If a surfer is watching a Straight Rent Boys video on the site and they upgrade to a premium membership, shouldn’t Straight Rent Boys get a cut of the membership fee?

Tube sites aren’t really a new business model. AVS worked on the premise that a webmaster would create a gallery and if that gallery sold a membership, they got a cut. How is the tube site model any different?

This could be a way for sponsors to create a new revenue stream for themselves. I’m surprised no one has thought of it before now.

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

Michael - Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I don’t think it will work. Case and point - Macho Moe. Most sponsors refuse to deal with him, but all it takes is one or two sponsors who will work with him and he’s got enough money to make it worthwhile. Apparently his hosting costs are something like $50/month since he hotlinks all his videos. It doesn’t take too many sales for him to make a profit.

IMHO, legal action is the only way to deal with tubes. The fines associated with piracy do make it unprofitable. But then it’s important to go after the sources of the video - the people actually hosting the stuff. But that’s often tricky given safe harbor. And honestly I wouldn’t want to see someone like Kevin slapped with a lawsuit. I think he’s genuinely horrified by what happened - it wasn’t his intent for things to come out this way. On the other hand Moe pretty much has publicly stated that he’s a pirate. He would be a great person to go after.

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I didn’t want to “reply with quote” Michael to your long post, but I couldn’t agree more.

I took the time to email the different sponsors/producers of full length videos I found on ManHub. To date, NONE of them have replied, said thank you for bringing this to our attention… oh, we didn’t know… yes, we have reported it to PornGuardian… absolutely nothing in response from any of them.

Since taking over our zVIDz tube site for Danny, all of this hoopla raises soo many questions on soo many levels for me.

  1. How do these videos “get past” someone?

  2. Are the video uploads for members set to automatic approval? If so, Why?
    (because they don’t have the man power to visually inspect them or just not willing to put in the time)

  3. Why would these members go sign up to a membership site, pay the money to join, grab the videos just to upload to ManHub?
    (just cuz they can? showing off their talents? HEY, look at me, I’m Mr. Cool, look at all the videos I’ve stolen)

And yes, I understand that they can sign up, pay the money, use a downloader, complain about something, cancel and/or get a refund and still walk away with the videos. We all know this happens. I just don’t understand what’s going through their mind and why they would do it other than ego.

OR…

  1. Are these people that work for ManHub and/or get paid to do so?

  2. Are ManHub employees/owners creating member accounts?
    Easy enough to do and then pass the buck off saying it was the member that uploaded the video, not them.

(I actually found a member account that was very short lived when clicking the link of the member who uploaded the video. Last login was something like Mar 12. Only 4 videos were uploaded via this account, all full length videos. That was the only login shown, never anything else after that and the last of the videos to go live appeared to be a month after the members login on Mar 12.) Just seems strange that there was no apparent further activity/logins other than MAYBE ManHub canceled or banned the member? (tough to swallow that one because the videos are still live on the site)

Just soo many questions :confused:

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I think this needs more. Why are there no industry blogs running with this? This is a story, those blogs need to be getting this out there. Studios and affiliates need to know what kind of company they are working with, and using the press of the industry to do that is an obvious choice.

Having the standard DMCA set up is one thing, all tubes have that, but charging for access to a premium area where pirated content from competitors is available is the lowest of the low. This should be all over the industry news right now - so why isn’t it?

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

[QUOTE=conran;126033]I think this needs more. Why are there no industry blogs running with this? This is a story, those blogs need to be getting this out there. Studios and affiliates need to know what kind of company they are working with, and using the press of the industry to do that is an obvious choice.

Having the standard DMCA set up is one thing, all tubes have that, but charging for access to a premium area where pirated content from competitors is available is the lowest of the low. This should be all over the industry news right now - so why isn’t it?[/QUOTE]

Why isn’t anything being done? I see a bunch of complaining, but not action as Michael so well put it.

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

Because sponsors are making money off these tube sites. When tubes like these make 30, 50, 80 sales a month for the sponsor, they’re reluctant to pull the plug on something they see as a cash cow. If the person complaining only makes 5, 10, 20 sales a month - the sponsor asks who’s business they’d rather have - they make more money off the pirate, so they ignore the problem hoping it’ll just go away quietly. It’s frustrating.

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I doubt sponsors make 30-50-80 sales a month out of Manhub to be honest.

Why would their surfers join 10 sponsor sites at $30 each when they can join Manhub Premium for $25 and get them all. Plus we all know tube traffic hardly converts, those surfers are only there for FREE stuff, very few of them are actually going to buy membership.

Don’t throw this in the sponsor’s corner again, it’s also frustrating to see affiliates promoting Manhub. Why is it always the sponsors that are being the bad guys? Affiliates encouraged Manhub just as much.

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Any Titan or Corbin Fisher full lengths there? I betcha not.

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I’m confused. I’m a site owner (often referred to as a sponsor) so how am I making any money out of Manhub?

Just been doing a search to report stolen films on Manhub and found this one: http://www.manhub.com/watch/128313/dominating-his-sweet-bottom-in-the-bedroom/

Uploaded 12 days ago and nearly 1.2 MILLION views. Do they pay me $0.01 per view for letting people view my full-length films? If so, I’m still waiting for the cheque!

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

Actually, yes there are.

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I know Macho Moe (Alexa Rank 36,631) is consistently making 40-50 sales a month for one of its sponsors. So it would follow that if Manhub (Alexa Rank 2,293) is making even more sales than that. According to Alexa’s “reach” Manhub as 17 times more traffic than Macho Moe. Alexa isn’t that far off the mark for big sites with sufficient traffic, and since they’re both tube sites, it’s an apples-to-apples comparison.

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Here is how I see this… someone correct me if I’m wrong.

  1. Manhub no longer offers full length pirated movies.
  2. Manhub no longer is the cash cow.
  3. People start looking at other sites to visit.
  4. Those same people start signing up (joining) membership sites via different affiliate sites.
  5. These are the same membership sites that were making money off of the Manhub affiliate program.

ManHub is but one site. Take it away, what’s left? If no more ManHub, then:

For example only:

a) 1000 people sign up for XXX sponsor site via Manhub.

b) Those same 1000 people now sign up for XXX sponsor site via multiple affiliates.

How does XXX sponsor lose money?

Spread the Love… Spread the Wealth!

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

[QUOTE=OldSchool;126044]a) 1000 people sign up for XXX sponsor site via Manhub.

b) Those same 1000 people now sign up for XXX sponsor site via multiple affiliates.

How does XXX sponsor lose money?[/QUOTE]

Because it doesn’t work that way. The site has to come down quickly/suddenly to have that scenario happen. In reality sponsors don’t want to pull out because it means more money for their competitors who are still advertising on the site. And remember Manhub has one sponsor that will never drop them - Haze Cash.

The only way to bring sites like this down suddenly is with legal action.

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Copyright holders should start submitting notices to Google, will affect their ranking. But no one seems to be doing that against them…

http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/

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ORLY?!? That’s pretty brazen of them.

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You’re making making money if a viewer clicks the tiny “Blake Mason” text link under the video. But seriously, there’s so many large ads on the browser chrome that I’d be surprised if anyone was clicking that tiny text ad.

Many tube sites, including Queer Pixels, have much more prominent click-throughs to sponsors on the videos themselves when they’re done playing and below the videos. But Manhub doesn’t seem to subscribe to this modus operendi. There main thrust seems to be to get surfers to buy a Man Hub Premium membership.

Adam, here’s on of your vids, you can grab the NATS code and see how much money you’re making.
http://www.manhub.com/watch/25643/two-cute-guys-sucking-cock-and-fucking/

Re: ManHub.com - Making money on your stolen content?

ONE of the ways to bring a site down is through legal action. And litigation is lengthy and costly and it might eventually kill the site, but winning a lawsuit doesn’t mean you’re always going to get your money.

There are other ways of greatly affecting a site:

(1) have a large number of companies black ball them and request all of there videos be removed
(2) report copyright infringement to Google and start affecting there search engine traffic
(3) report them to Porn Guardian and have them flooded with DMCA notices so their staff have to spend heaps of time deleting videos
(4) complain to their billers that they’re selling memberships on the backs of stolen content

Those are all free things that sponsors can do that won’t tie up their lives and bank accounts in court. Perhaps someone from Titan or Corbin Fisher would like to share here how much it costs to sue one of their copyright infringement guys, how long it takes, and whether or not they get their money.

Americans are sue happy, the only people who really get what they want out of lawsuits are lawyers.