Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Webmaster Discussion
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#1

In the “can we talk about…” theme, Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio was at the top of my mind at Phoenix Forum this year. They were one of the big sponsors of the event. Problem was, what I saw really turned me off…

Going into it Buddy Profits / Next Door Studios was working uphill to win me over (which is the point of an event sponsorship). I’ve had a bit of bad taste in my mouth ever since the drama with Mason Wyler. After Mason got outed as being poz I had an hour long IM chat with him and he told me how Next Door Studios would not let him have sex on camera after that point - not even safe sex with another poz guy. In other words, Next Door Studios is actively poz-hostile - they see poz guys as lepers who literally should not be touched. IMHO, there is no justification for policies like that. I don’t care that it comes from the straight side of their business - they’re doing gay porn and sending the message to poz gay guys that they’re so damaged that they shouldn’t be intimate with others - that their sex life is basically over… It’s just so wrong…

Next Door Studios spent a crazy amount of money at Phoenix Forum (partly funded by CCBill I’m sure). They had something like 14 models there. The money to fly them in, put them up, and pay them was substantial. Thing is, the guys were this tight knit group who rarely interacted with anyone else…

What I started to realize as I watched them was that the vast majority of them are straight. No wonder they didn’t interact much with the gay attendees… Gay for pay has it’s place - I’m not not knocking the whole category (Jeff @ Str8Cams is a total sweetie…) It was more than that… My friend (Damian from PPV Networks) was hanging out at one of the late night parties and Austin Wilde was standing next to him. Damian just put his hand on Austin’s shoulder as he was goofing around and talking to someone else - sorta trying to bring Austin into their conversation. Austin turned around and glared at him and said “Hey Mister” and brushed Damian’s hand off him. It was clear Austin didn’t want to be touched by a gay guy. Damian is anything but a troll (most guys who see him want to have sex with him), and touching Austin wasn’t creepy - it’s the sort of thing that happens at a drunken late night party filled with gay guys. It wasn’t like Damian fondled him or anything - Damian’s a sweet, good natured guy and it was a friendly gesture…

So it seems that in addition to being poz-hostile, at least some of Next Door’s performers are gay-hostile. WTF? I mean they’re doing gay porn and they have a problem with gay guys and/or being touched? But I guess gay-hostile and poz-hostile sorta go hand in hand…

The other thing that stood out was how plastic and fake the guys were. Their bodies were perfect - too perfect actually… My boyfriend likes that type of porn and at 127 pounds (57.7 kg) he sometimes comments that he’s out of shape and flabby. Which makes me seriously wonder why we, as gay men, hold homophobic, gay-for-pay, poz-hostile guys on steroids and water pills up as sexual role models? At least in (good) bareback porn the guys are gay and they show that sexy comes in all sorts of sizes and shapes…

And yes, Buddy Profits is straight owned, but so is My Gay Cash, but unlike Buddy Profits, My Gay Cash’s sites do not promulgate an unattainable body image, the performers aren’t anti-gay, and with some of MGC’s sites it’s sort of assumed nearly all the guys are poz. Being straight isn’t the problem. The problem with Buddy Profits and Next Door Studios is that they just seem to be using the gay community to make money without even giving basic respect back in return.

Honestly, I was really disappointed when many of you listed Buddy Profits as one of your top sponsors. So I guess my question is what does it mean for us as gay men that Buddy Profits is one of the top selling sponsors? Do any of you have problems with it like I do? I mean I’ll promote Buddy Profit’s non-Next Door sites - like Colt and Falcon (0.38% of my revenue comes from them), but I just can’t bring myself to promote Next Door Studio sites… It just seems wrong on so many levels…

I’d love to hear from those of you who think Buddy Profits is OK… Convince me I’m wrong on all this…

bpboys.jpg

#2

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I mean… Austin is gay. And openly so. Maybe there was something else going on there. A bunch more are openly bi-sexual and even Cody Cummings, who is publicly maligned for being homophobic (from the nameless jerks who also call me a fat old troll, mind you), is always very friendly and nice to everyone as far as I’ve seen. Fuck knows that I’ve made more than my share of innocent comments that are distorted and reported as “what Jasun said” on a few blogs.

I won’t get too deep into the way the guys tended to congregate in one corner… they were there for a few events where they did interact well with the guests, but during the day they were at the Next Door tent where anyone was welcome to drop by, say “hello,” take some pictures and I got some nice blog content with them. They were very willing to pose for pictures with anyone who approached and were all great and funny on the video I shot with them.

I wouldn’t call any of them “plastic” or “fake.” There’s no denying they’re young men in amazing shape. That’s their job to look like that. And they make a nice living for men in their early 20s and are willing to put the work into looking like that (sad part is that I put about as much work into it as they do and at 43, I don’t have abs like that anymore). Besides, most of them were pretty nice. A bit shy, maybe. Which I would have been at 21 when I was surrounded by business people and I was wearing a speedo.

That said, they’re mostly “just” models, meaning that they don’t have a lot to do with the business end of things so they didn’t really interact with us while we were in meetings.

Every studio has their policies on bareback, sero-sorting and poz performers. I agree with some, I don’t with others.

As far as “good” scenes having gay performers… not always true. I’m pretty open about how I think condoms are hot and support Titan’s bareback policy. But I have seen some really hot scenes that were with straight guys. I haven’t seen a lot of scenes with two straight men that I felt really “worked” but I’ve seen a lot of scenes with a gay guy and a straight guy that were off the chart.

And finally… I once talked to a guy who was straight and came from the straight industry. Said that he would only do bareback for gay scenes because if his friends saw it, they would know it was an AIM-tested scene. If he’d used a condom, they would have assumed the scene partner was HIV+. Which is the exact opposite of what gay viewers would think.

I make no secret that I think condoms are hot and never really gave much thought to condoms until my little brother told me he was barebacking and I lost my shit. But we won’t get into that here.

Yes… we all prefer to interact with gay porn stars who are gay when we go to gay porn parties. But I’m not sure it’s really fair to write off the whole studio because the models were a bit stand-off-ish while they were really just there by the pool when they weren’t on the clock.

#3

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Jasun - As we discussed briefly at PF - maybe this is just a case of “that side of porn” being so vastly different than bareback… Honestly I’m sorta struggling to get my head around it all… It doesn’t compute to me… The stuff I promote is about being uninhibited, slutty, etc. That stuff is about being body perfect and sometimes over produced to the point that people like me see it as “plastic” and fake.

#4

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Have you read Austin’s tweets? The guy’s a bit of an ass no matter what forum you find him in. I was starting to promote him a bit, and I might have even sold a membership. Even retweeted one of the things once, which usually gets you hugs and kisses from the smarter gay porn stars.

The problem with the Next Door sites for me is that they just convert. I end up throwing heaps of traffic with very little return.

But thanks for pointing out your experience.

The problem I have with a lot of gay porn stars is that they’re all escorts. I remember meeting one at my first AVN. I had several of his galleries up on my AVS hub and he was only interested in talking to me because I was a fat bear and he figured I might have some cash to throw his way. When he realized I wasn’t paying, he wasn’t talking any more. And this is an experience that’s been repeated a number of times.

#5

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

As far as the whole Mason Wyler thing, I believe Next Door has in their contract that if any of their models test positive, they’re done filming. I don’t necessarily consider that to be poz-phobic (and I am poz). I get that some studios just don’t want to to be involved with poz performers. It’s a liability. Condoms break. And who wants to be sued by a performer who contracts HIV on a movie shoot?

#6

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I will chime in here just a little bit…

I will say that this was my first Phoenix Forum and I met some WONDERFUL people.

Coming into this I was not very familiar with Next Door Studios but I will say I observed 2 things.

#1 The models stuck together and didn’t look like they wanted to associate with anyone that wasn’t REALLY well known (IE: Jasun, Maverick Men, etc).

#2 I heard nothing but catty, nasty things about Next Door Studios while there from LOTS of people, and I mean LOTS. In fact, I never heard one nice thing said about them the entire time I was there.

So I will go out on a limb and say maybe Jasun’s experience was a bit more rosy because of his place in the biz… and he is also one of the few gay guys I have ever seen Cody Cummings actually smile and talk to.

Finally, I will say I had about a 10 min random conversation with Mark Bower, VP of Strategy and Biz Development for Next Door Entertainment and he was perfectly nice to speak with. We only really discussed my site and my niche however.

So, whatever… My section of this world doesn’t really cross paths with the big name studios. But I did wanna interject what I observed. I still have no real opinion about them either way I guess.

#7

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I’m reading these comments about the Buddy Profits models sticking together as one little private group and have to chuckle. It has been my observation from attending these trade shows that industry people as a whole can be very cliq-ey and prefer to chat and party with the same people year after year.

Brandon, it sounds like you were able to break into some of the industry cliqs (maybe because you look so cuddly) but whenever I’ve been to these things the only people that would talk to me are sales people wanting to sell me something and the few first timers like me who I could find. Most of the time I felt like the only first-timer in a sea of veterans who acted like they all knew each other since high school…and had zero ineterest in welcoming new people into their groups.

It’s not like I’m a troll or have body odor, etc… I’m actually very social in my non-porn life. Although I’m not shy I will admit that I’m not comfortable breaking into a group of people already having a conversation… and that’s pretty much all I saw at the shows I attended.

I remember being at one of the cocktail parties standing on the balcony observing how everyone was in their little groups. I got up the nerve to merge into a group and started chatting, but then the entourage from Sean Cody broke in and literally pushed me out, as the remaining members of the group hovered around them in awe (I must admit I was surprised at how good looking they were). Anyhow, needless to say I left that show unimpressed and decided that from now on I’ll just interact with industry peers on boards like this. That is until I become as powerful and popular as some of the other people mentioned above and then people will flock to me. LOL

Sorry… I didn’t mean to write a bitchy rant but the whole idea of people who hang out in cliqs getting upset about straight models hanging out together and ignoring them strikes me as some kind of ironic justice.

#8

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Back in the day I was an escort for about 9 months when I was in grad school. We had hustler bars in NYC back then and it was interesting to watch other hustlers in action hanging out and picking up clients. There were those who thought they were big shit because they got $150-250/hour for their services. I never looked at it like that - to me it was about making money to pay bills. I had a rule that I’d always take the subway home instead of a cab to remind myself why I was escorting. I never saw myself as an escort - I saw escorting as something I needed to do to get by - there’s a huge difference. Having “been there” I don’t have a lot of respect for guys who think they deserve money just for having a nice body. IMHO, porn stars should love sex, work hard and even do stuff they don’t enjoy - not just look pretty…

So if someone states up front that they’re a bigot, that’s OK? Discrimination in the workplace isn’t OK, even if the discriminatory policies are stated upfront. There probably isn’t an issue that affects the gay community more than HIV. If you’re doing gay porn you can’t just say you don’t want to deal with it…

#9

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I don’t see if as a discrimination issue, I see it as a health and safety issue. It’s not like they’re saying, “If we find out you have black people in your family, you’re done.”

HIV is a transmittable disease that can have dire health consequences – even death – and can cost you a fortune to treat if you don’t have insurance. In the litigious society in which we live anyone who had sex with a poz performer, even if they agreed and used condoms, could definitely find a lawyer to take their case if they became poz as a result of that film shoot.

It’s like they can’t force performers to have sex with other performers who are known to currently have syphillis. That’s not discrimination, that’s health and safety.

And I’m sorry, but people should have the right to decide whether or not they have sex with someone who is poz. Maybe you see it as discrimination, but I don’t. Discrimination would be Next Door Studios decided the guy doing the casting or holding the camera couldn’t work there anymore because they’re poz.

Besides, gay or straight, aren’t most performers done once they become poz … maybe no one says it out loud, but I’m betting they don’t get hired much after they sero convert unless they’re filming for a barebacking studio that okay with it.

#10

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

btw, while I do try to be nice to everyone and I do try to be friendly and talk to everyone (because we’re there for business, obviously), I know that I also do occasionally pay attention to the big guys. We obviously go to shows like that for the sake of business and often I’m given directives like “talk to this person about that thing” and sometimes this person is only available at that time.

And of course in the case of the guys from Sean Cody, we’re friends outside the industry who seldom see each other and yeah, sometimes we just wanna hang out.

#11

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

[QUOTE=dzinerbear;113305]I don’t see if as a discrimination issue, I see it as a health and safety issue. It’s not like they’re saying, “If we find out you have black people in your family, you’re done.”

HIV is a transmittable disease that can have dire health consequences – even death – and can cost you a fortune to treat if you don’t have insurance. In the litigious society in which we live anyone who had sex with a poz performer, even if they agreed and used condoms, could definitely find a lawyer to take their case if they became poz as a result of that film shoot.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but if it’s about avoiding risk, fire all the negative guys and go with poz guys who are on meds and undetectable. Tons of data says that’s the lowest risk group of all. If you look at the data objectively Next Door Studio’s stance is indefensible. They’re policy is based on unsubstantiated fears, not fact. I think Jasun’s story (about the guy who thought anyone who uses a condom is poz and that you can get HIV from safe sex with a poz guy) is telling. That’s the sorta nonsense that the policy is based on and it’s just wrong headed.

#12

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

[QUOTE=dzinerbear;113305]I don’t see if as a discrimination issue, I see it as a health and safety issue. It’s not like they’re saying, “If we find out you have black people in your family, you’re done.”

HIV is a transmittable disease that can have dire health consequences – even death – and can cost you a fortune to treat if you don’t have insurance. In the litigious society in which we live anyone who had sex with a poz performer, even if they agreed and used condoms, could definitely find a lawyer to take their case if they became poz as a result of that film shoot.

It’s like they can’t force performers to have sex with other performers who are known to currently have syphillis. That’s not discrimination, that’s health and safety.

And I’m sorry, but people should have the right to decide whether or not they have sex with someone who is poz. Maybe you see it as discrimination, but I don’t. Discrimination would be Next Door Studios decided the guy doing the casting or holding the camera couldn’t work there anymore because they’re poz.

Besides, gay or straight, aren’t most performers done once they become poz … maybe no one says it out loud, but I’m betting they don’t get hired much after they sero convert unless they’re filming for a barebacking studio that okay with it.[/QUOTE]

I’ll just wade in to the topic that has flown wildly off the tracks…this 1990s-era attitude has got to stop. Period.

ADAP, Ryan White, etc., etc, even the drug companies themselves to some extent are stepping in. And it’s illegal to discriminate for HIV+, and a lawsuit pretty much identical to what you describe above just got tossed. The mortality rate from HIV in developed countries is less dangerous than the alarmist attitude based on lack of/outdated knowledge and the discrimination it causes.

Everyone insists on throwing condoms at the situation. No one mentions PrEP/PEP, no one mentions that someone with HIV is something like 96% less likely to transmit HIV if they’re on meds. Or that just maybe if the actual number of poz people knew it and were on the medication the prices would, by law of economics, drop. Not to mention the only reason they’re so high in the first place is protecting patents (read, corporations) in a case where that should not even be an option. Expecting everyone to use condoms, all the time, is nearly as unrealistic as abstinence education. And the fact is there is a huge difference between HIV and AIDS in 2012, not like it was in 1997.

Assuming a 1990s attitude just makes that discrimination justifiable. Basically equivalent to a black guy refusing to be with a white girl he cares a lot about because ‘that just isn’t done’. It just feeds the religious right more ammunition to shoot yourself down.

A performer could show up with mild pneumonia to avoid losing his job and end up giving another model, or a crew member whose immune system is weak, a fatal case of pneumonia. Would anyone in their right mind even think of this as a winnable lawsuit? Even though the odds of influenza or pneumonia taking someone out are, I just checked, substantially higher than HIV (10.2 per 100,000 vs 3.3)

#13

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Returning to the more general topic.

I haven’t attended in years, but I have to say I remember Jasun from when I was there. He was friendly and introduced me to others. Luke and his partner were also very nice to a newbie.

IMHO, I don’t expect much from models. No offense, but at the end of the day they have been paid to be spokespeople. To me, it’s kind of like going to a car show and being upset that the beautiful model hired to showcase the car isn’t interacting with me. I know actors who were hired to do shows on cruise ships. it got tricky when they were off the clock and people expected to be entertained by them.

Having said that, If I was hiring someone to be a spokesperson I would re-hire people who didn’t mind being on the clock for extended periods of time. Or, I would put them up at a different hotel and run shifts. I’d make sure they knew that if they’re in the main hotel then they need to be as sweet as can be. When they were at my cheap ass hotel I was putting them up in, they can relax since they are on their own time.

Oh yeah. I also met Cody Cummings and he was reasonably nice. Once we got past the “I promote your site”. his reply, “thank you”. I ran out of things to say.

#14

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I suppose we should be grateful that Next Door was the major sponsor of the show. Otherwise there was NOT the equivalent representation of big tit girls hired as eye candy. I’ll take cute stand-offish guys over cute stand-offish girls anytime. Do I wish blowjobs from gay porn stars were more plentiful at Phoenix Forum? Yes, but it could be worse.

#15

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Except that these spokespeople are the product that’s being sold…

Can you imagine if Treasure Island had been the major sponsor? There probably would have been gangbangs in the rooms like there are at IML & Folsom… lol I was chatting with Damon Dogg at one point and he commented on how everyone there sorta looked the same to him.

Speaking of which, there wasn’t much of any leather/fetish anywhere. I kept drinking beer and had to use the bathroom when I would have rather texted a piss pig to come by and take care of me… :slight_smile: I met one guy who was apparently a piss pig, but he wasn’t looking for piss - maybe he was just one on camera…

#16

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

I’m a newbie. This is the first time I attend the Phoenix Forum (or any webmaster gathering). But from what I saw, everyone is really nice to me. From the big guys at NakedSword, Next Door, Men.com and so on, to the firstimers like myself.

About the models, I didn’t have much time to interact with them as I want to, because of my hectic meeting schedules.

I only had like 10 minutes between meetings so I just ran to the pool and saw pretty much the same thing as the first picture by rawTOP. The models hang out together at their Next Door tent. I felt like I just crashed their party by walking in their tent and asked to take pictures. They are nice, actually Austin Wilde was the first one who stood up for me to take pictures. Even Cody Cummings smiled while I took his picture.

http://queermenow.net/blog/queer-me-now-the-phoenix-forum-2012-porn-stars-spotting/

#17

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

Oh, and I have to praise CockyBoys. Their models, Tommy Defendi and Jake Bass were the most friendly models at the event. They gave me a hug every time we met.

#18

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

RawTOP:

The behavior you observed regarding the Next Door Buddies models at the Phoenix Forum is not a characteristic specifically tied to their employer. Basically, the way it works at these shows is the porn stars typically move together in swarms, like schools of fish - swimming through the areas of the fishtank, hanging out. What happens when you walk up to the fishtank? Poof! They’ve zipped off somewhere else. And you’re still standing there by yourself next to an imitation coral reef.

Seriously though - I’ve met some of the Buddy Profits models as they come through Austin for their FleshJack work. And many are quite nice. Many are straight. Austin Wilde is not straight. He’s just terrified of germs.

I will second Dzinerbear’s comments on Austin Wilde’s behavior on Twitter. It’s all about connecting, and with porn stars this can be a challenge. At a Phoenix Forum years ago - thanks to some beer and to Brian Randall’s urging - I built up the guts to go up and talk to Carlos Morales. And he was so nice! I almost feinted. You just have to remember that these are porn stars. Many are escorts or dancers, so they are prone to pose in positions so they can be oggled. Many are used to having their drinks bought for them, and that attitude manifests itself in how they carry themselves. Some of the guys are off putting, while others have a better head on their shoulders.

To be honest, when I read your title of this thread I thought it would be on a different BuddyProfits subject. For me BuddyProfits runs three very relevant paysites for me - Falcon, Hot House and COLT. And these are properties which - well, let’s just say they used to pay for trips to the Phoenix Forum. Now they all manage to pay my electric bill.

I’ve spent the last month slowly updating everything on my site, and I’ve been deleting junk and adding new more promising sponsors - including the PPV Networks sites, mostly because of your high recommendations for them on here.

My biggest problem with BuddyProfits is all the PROMO CODE discounting that I see. I follow Austin Wilde and Rod Daily on Twitter, and they frequently tweet discount codes. Well, gee wiz. I’m competing with Rod Daily to sell memberships on his own website?!?!? I think that’s shifty and a bunch of crap. You know, we all can gripe about pirates and tube sites, but you know another reason the porn industry has fallen off a cliff? Rampant discounting. Consumers aren’t stupid.

I also wish their tracking cookie were 30 days - at least that would be a crumb since I’m having to compete with coupons being handed out from the models.

Steve

PS: For the record, BuddyProfits has always been completely professional with me. Their affiliate manager has gone out of his way to work with me whenever I asked for anything. So some of this is just me venting. I apologize.

#19

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

They gave me a hug every time we met.

Lucky boy! I was so busy in meetings from the time I woke up tell the time I went to sleep, I hardly had time to see any models let alone get any hugs, lol. I hope next year we can bring some models from StraightRentBoys and maybe even one of our Asian sites. It would be nice to see some more diversity there!

#20

Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?

No worse than some sites getting content ahead of others, or access to brand new sites ahead of everyone else. It’s not fair, but I guess it’s business. The thing is that Next Door has quickly moved into that realm where the affiliates who made them who they are just aren’t that important anymore. The couple of sales I throw at them a month won’t make or break them. In fact, I’d dare say that every affiliate on this board could stop promoting them and it wouldn’t even be a bleep on their radar.

The problem as I see it is that they moved into the corporate porn realm where everything is perfect and polished. They’re unsellable. Who wants to buy a membership off a picture of a guy with his mouth open six inches away from a cock? The Next Door sites sold much better for me when there was just two of them and they were much more amateur.

On the other hand, I could put up banners for Boyfriend Bucks saying, “Don’t buy a membership, this site is utter crap” and they’d still buy in droves.

It’s just weird.