testing and tweaking marketing

Webmaster Discussion
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#1

a lot of webmasters i know - and not just here - go to boards or talk to friends to decide on things like prices, tours, video options. or maybe they own a tgp and ask for design ideas or do freesites and ask about the galleries. then they take the advice, come up with what something and stick with it.

i don’t understand this. not everyone has the same results, and half the people who answer stuff on boards don’t even have a site, or don’t have that kind of site. or they do, but have never tried any alternatives to what they’re currently doing.

another group gets ideas from sites they perceive as very successful. there are reasons why this could work and reasons why it sometimes doesn’t. i have a client who felt this one site was just the best a paysite could be. he wanted to do everything just like them. he talked about the site and models and admired everything. the catch is that i happened to know the site owners, and they make around $1000 a month total. and while their stuff is good enough that they should be making far more, they won’t experiment. there’s other common examples where getting ideas from other sites doesn’t work, but i know this post is getting very long…

a few years ago, most webmasters believed that trials sold much better than full subscriptions all the time. several of my clients not only started making a lot more money when they pulled down their trials, but several continued to make close to the same number of sales - i’m talking within 10%. sure, some people didn’t have that result - but enough did that it is certainly worth doing at least a couple hundred sales with trials, a couple hundred without and then tracking those 2 groups of members to see the ultimate totals as well as keeping track of how much traffic went to getting each group. it’s better to do that with more sales - 500 each - but i know some people are insecure, and 200 each should give a good indication.

then there’s things like text sizes, what phrases lead to more sales (it’s not always the same phrases that lead to sending more traffic) and so on. the list goes on and on.

so… do you decide what to do and stick with it or do you try various options?

#2

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

i try and mix it up when i do stuff but some sponsors simply dont offer you a good way to see if stuff works or not… no specielt tracking options etc makes it hard to keep track of sales from page a vs page b or page c…

#3

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

lots of sponsors do offer campaigns, and if it’s a ccbill sponsor, you can usually sign up for 2 or 3 more accounts.

#4

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

I like to try new things, yet at times it just seems there isn’t enough time to make them, or fully implement them. It is like being stuck in a rut, but then others do manage. Makes you wonder if someone gave them an extra few hours each day. whistle

Then too, there is the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ mantra one gets into, the fear of maybe the changes causing a loss that one can’t recoup from, so fear is a great paralyzing force too. We see it works, but are frightened that if we change it, we lose. :bang:

my 2 cents at 2am lol

#5

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

I like to try different things out in the beginning, but tend to stick with things as a whole after I get really good results. Small tweaking here and their afterwards is important for balance, and to make sure you are really getting the best results.

I like to apply this to content creation as well. Trying new things can lead to new niches you didn’t know people were interested in, or didn’t exist previously. Had it not been for my first nightvision video experiment on Squirtit, and all the tons of emails I got requesting more, I wouldn’t have created sleepingmen.com.

I would love to see more studios experiment more with content instead of all sticking with the same boring thing until it finally makes people want to puke after a few years. Some of these sites promoting Gay porn have so many sites with the same look, and same kind of content, you couldn’t tell each studio had it not been for their logo on the promo images.

Tweaking on sites is good, but to much and your loyal surfers will start to lose your identity and feel the site is unstable, depending on how often you implement changes and how drastic they are.

#6

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

I guess the biggest obstacle to being successful in this business is that we get no formal training. There’s no school to teach you how to build and market a porn site. Couple that with the fact that most webmasters are not business people, marketers, or sales people, their just people with computers and software (and maybe content) thinking they can make a living. Some do very well, some mediocre, and some not so well.

I find the downside to working in this business is that I work alone. I have no one to guide me, mentor me, help or support me. Now, I certainly have friends in the business who do these things, but I’ve got to hope that they know what they’re doing and that their advice is sound.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done so-and-so thinking it was going to be great, and then, weeks later when talking about my frustrations that it didn’t meet my expectations, a friend will say, “Yeah, I thought that was weird when you put it up.” Then tell me … please.

Then there’s the whole problem of what can you expect from this business in terms of revenue. People make wildly vague claims on the boards all the time — I’ve just had the best day ever or my sales have gone through the roof — but no one really knows what that means. If I’m used to getting one sale a day, and this week I start getting 4, then I suppose you could say my sales are through the roof. So webmasters don’t know what to expect, so if they put something up and they convert 1:2000 that may be okay for them because they don’t know better. Often it isn’t until someone comes along and says something that the webmaster makes a change and discovers a new reality.

I do try different things, but I also tend to get stuck in routines. I guess there’s just always so much to do, so much coming at me, that I don’t have a lot of time for playing around.

I’m also impatient. marcjacob and I were talking about this yesterday. He had a new sponsor covert very well out of the gate, then a week or so later the sales stats started looking pretty ho hum, then overnight he snagged a bunch of sales that brought everything into a favourable light again. I had a project that I did about a year ago. I put it up enthusiastically, and then, I got busy with other things, so it sat there for a whole year and I didn’t touch it. Now, I discover it’s gotten some #1 rankings for some great keywords, so now I’m eager to develop it further. Had I been watching it every day I would have been frustrated as Google did it’s dance over the year.

But I just think that most people in the adult business don’t know what they’re doing, we’re just stumbling along trying to figure it out, and if we stick with it, then we learn and grow and figure out what works and what doesn’t. And sometimes, if we’re lucky, we have someone say, “You know, you could do that this way,” and the advice changes our life.

Cheers,
Michael

#7

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

The other side of the coin is that it can be a mistake to give away too much about how you run your business, what you do and how. I learnt that the hard way many years ago. Some newbies in particular have completely unrealistic expectations when it comes to how much help they can demand and expect. Most people are happy to give a few pointers or help out here and there with questions. But few are going to hand over their entire business model for free.

Running sites requires a large range of different skills. Some you can pay someone else to do, but I do think you need to have a certain set of core skills/qualities yourself. Some of which can be taught and some maybe can’t.

#8

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

Exactly. And because there are few standards that need to be met to run a site, and because there are no licences we need to obtain to run them, we end up with all kinds of people jumping into the mix. If you want to build and sell cars there are certain standards (safety, environmental, and others) that you must meet in order to be able to sell your product on the market. If you can’t meet them, you won’t be permitted to enter the market. With porn sites, all you need is a computer and some software. You can pretty much do whatever you want until someone smacks you and says you shouldn’t do that, or in the case of 2257 and shooting underage models, you’re going to get into trouble if you do that.

And you’re right DRS, unreasonable expectations bring all sorts of people to the table. It’s always fun watching the “okay I’m here where are my millions” kinds of people walk into the room.

Michael

#9

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

Right, but I think the point was that we can’t take a college course to learn this stuff… If people don’t talk honestly and openly on boards like this, how are newbies supposed to learn? I know that’s my case - I’m trying to absorb as much as I can… I feel like every day I learn something new here…

That said, I definitely agree that it’s the newbie’s job to learn and do it for themselves in nearly all cases. But it’s ideal when there’s someone who will call you on things you’re doing that may be stupid - or someone you can bounce things off of.

#10

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

The trouble with licences to do things is they tend to just end up as a gravy train for other people. If there was a compulsory licence required to run adult websites you can bet the people doing the training would be some of the worst around eg. those who had actually failed at ever running their own site. No doubt there would be all kinds of tests and annual fees with the money going to the government.

I’m not sure a licence would do much to prevent underage models either. I suspect most people who deal in that are well aware of what they’re doing and almost all outside of the UK.

#11

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

Well I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and ask in what way is it in the interest of existing business owners to help newbies to learn? lol

I hear people on here saying no we in the porn industry are not responsible for teaching people about safer sex, so why should we teach newbie webmasters how to become competitors? :smiley:

#12

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

[QUOTE=DirtyRatStudios;16851]Well I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and ask in what way is it in the interest of existing business owners to help newbies to learn? lol

I hear people on here saying no we in the porn industry are not responsible for teaching people about safer sex, so why should we teach newbie webmasters how to become competitors? :D[/QUOTE]

I think we’ve firmly established in the barebacking threads that I’m not you competitor (at least not a direct one)…

If you follow that logic then we should shut down all of the universities… Why would a computer programmer want to teach someone else how to program - why wouldn’t he just want all the work for himself? Why would a writer want to teach people how to write? (read, yes, but not write…) And business schools make no sense at all…

But the thing is all of those things do make sense - porn is not an alternate reality (as much as some people may think so)…

#13

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

first off, i’ve answered every question every newbie ever asked. i was helped when i started, and i believe we’re all in this together. i’ve seen a lot of other very experienced and knowledgeable webmasters answer questions in great detail.

i’ve seen some very successful webmasters give out lots of details, too - it’s not just me. i have a number of threads bookmarked, and this is one of the 2 top bookmarks http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=558484

btw, please don’t derail my thread and turn it into another bareback topic, folks. i think this is a very interesting subject that’s worth discussing.

[quote=DirtyRatStudios;16851]Well I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and ask in what way is it in the interest of existing business owners to help newbies to learn? lol

I hear people on here saying no we in the porn industry are not responsible for teaching people about safer sex, so why should we teach newbie webmasters how to become competitors? :D[/quote]

#14

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

I think you’re overlooking the fact that all the people you mentioned get paid for doing it.

#15

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

You’re determined to censor ANY discussion of that on here aren’t you? Through bullying tactics.

Even a vaguely related remark that was about people in the adult industry being prepared to educate others on whatever subject. And I’m not the only one who has noticed the agenda.

Would it be easier if all the people are aren’t into promoting bareback just left the board rather than be sniped at the whole time?

Listen I’ll leave you all to discuss this in YOUR thread OK?

#16

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

no, but it is always been against the rules of this board to hijack threads. if you want to talk about barebacking, please post it on its own thread so that those of us who want to discuss other topics can do so.

the entire point of not hijacking threads is so that subjects of interest don’t get pre-empted or buried.

[quote=DirtyRatStudios;16857]You’re determined to censor ANY discussion of that on here aren’t you? Through bullying tactics.

Even a vaguely related remark that was about people in the adult industry being prepared to educate others on whatever subject. And I’m not the only one who has noticed the agenda.

Would it be easier if all the people are aren’t into promoting bareback just left the board rather than be sniped at the whole time?

Listen I’ll leave you all to discuss this in YOUR thread OK?[/quote]

#17

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

I DID NOT hijack the thread.

I asked why, if adult webmasters are not in the business of educating the public they should be in the business of educating other webmasters. I even said I was playing ‘devil’s advocate’ by asking the question.

What you do with your time is your choice and if you want to forgo earning a living by spending time helping people, posting several boards and moderating that is up to you.

#18

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

She’s asking you to stay on topics in thread, which I greatly appreciate.

There is nothing more annoying then starting a thread, getting a good conversation going on topic, then someone changing the topic instead of starting a new thread with the new topic.

I’m guilty as well and didn’t used to realize that I derailed threads. It’s easy to do. One way to make sure threads stay on topic is before you hit the submit key, re read the first post, and make sure your post is in correlation. If not, that’s a clue to copy your post and start a new thread with it. :cool:

Testing and tweaking marketing is an important topic for any of us with websites. :wink:

#19

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

(Sorry for mentioning the bareback thread - it really was just a tangential comment to make a point…)

Getting back on track here… None of us know everything. You and I are having a discussion about hotlinking protection for videos in another thread right now. Everyone benefits when people share their knowledge. Sure professors get paid, but universities exist because society wants to get people up to a basic level of understanding (and have an incubator for the creation of new ideas).

As much as some people see this place as a place to network, IMHO it’s a place to learn. Maybe 'cause I feel like I’ve got a lot to learn. But I think everyone benefits when the standards in the industry go up.

Take the issue of PageRank - why is it that the absolute best porn sites only have a PR of 6? Is Google capping it, or is it because our industry has a lot of spammy sites and we don’t do a good job of controlling the flow of link juice, or avoiding penalties for things like paid advertisements (affiliate links without nofollow)?

I think it’s great when we comment on each other’s sites (Alex’s new pages for example). I hope someone will tell me when I make a marketing blunder with my sites…

#20

Re: testing and tweaking marketing

> She’s asking you to stay on topics in thread, which I greatly appreciate.

Did you even read the thread Squirt? I would say not.