Sean Cody closing accounts?

Webmaster Discussion
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#1

I just had this interesting email from a gaydemon visitor (see below). In short, SeanCody closes any member accounts that hits a 5gig download limit per day. 5 gig sounds a lot to me, but the problem seems to be that they do not inform anyone about this “rule” and people are getting their accounts closed without any warning:

I just thought I would let you know of a new development that apparently has been happening with Sean Cody. They have changed the web site to hide in the terms that if you download more than 5gigabytes in one day, which is very easy for a new member to do. They permanently close your account, and when emailed tell you too bad, you violated our terms and we get to keep your money legally. May people who were members before are VERY upset, feeling like they have been a victim of fraud since this change is hidden deep in some huge terms and conditions page link. Why they simply don’t pop up a notice, or stop your downloading, or put it in plain view on the site they won’t answer. So basically you get one time if you download a bunch when you start, which is easy considering things are hi def now, then they shut you off and tell you too bad , we are keeping your money. I used to think Sean Cody had a great site, but in my mind his reptutation just went into the trash permanently and I am not a mean guy. I rang several friends, who had heard of many people being screwed over the same way. The only thing we wondered if this is what Sean himself really wanted, or is his billing company ccbilling doing this. A few guys said it felt like criminal fraud. I am not a lawyer so this is just what I have experienced and seen. I think it’s a real shame, I really liked that site’s models. Considering they went back to a NO DRM, I find this really weird. You pay and if you get caught by this secret hidden clause in the terms you lose your money and get nothing. I thought you might want to post or write something about it since my friends knew dozens of people who said they had heard of similar experiences and were avoiding Sean Cody now and going to Randy BLue or Blake Mason or other sites. Mark

#2

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Surely thats a chargeback waiting to happpen?

#3

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

wow a very interesting read, I have never seen anyone from S.C post on any forum ?

#4

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

I don’t think it’s necessarily unreasonable to limit the amount of bandwidth a member uses in a day, but the way to do that is to buy Ray Morris’ Throttlebox or a similar product, not to let the customer go over an invisible limit and then screw him.

Hopefully either a bunch of chargebacks will get their attention or else someone with a brain will figure out that, even without chargebacks, this is a PR disaster.

It never ceases to amaze me how much effort some companies make (and not just in the adult biz) to alienate customers to a brand they’ve spent a long time developing.

#5

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

a lot of sites limit bandwidth, but most only turn you off for the rest of the day or 2 days and send you a warning - i haven’t seen sites that permanently close accounts before.

for fuck’s sake, i pay 55 cents for 5 gig of bandwidth - i sure wouldn’t cancel a member who spent $24.95 over 55 cents! maybe the folks at sean cody figure this amount means you must be using a site sucker, but you could probably download 5 gig in a day if you spent a couple hours watching vids.

i agree with chip that throttlebox is a much better way to do this.

#6

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

I just told my boyfriend about it (he’s subscribed to Sean Cody in the past) - he didn’t like the sound of that at all… From his point of view they already use DRM (which he doesn’t like) and this move seems customer unfriendly to him. Let the customers watch as much as they want in a Flash player, but then limit their downloads and give them a friendly alert saying “you’ve reached your download limit for today, you can download more tomorrow”…

Bottom line it seems they view their customers as a problem (DRM, download limits, etc.) - that’s not good… Better to manage the situation so problem customers hit soft limits - not hard walls…

#7

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Are you sure it was the customer’s first time?

“4.3. TRANSFER ALLOWANCE. Your membership is allowed a maximum transfer of 5 gigabytes per 24-hour period. If the Company determines, in its sole discretion, that this allowance has been or is being exceeded repeatedly, Company may terminate Your membership without refund.”

http://seancody.com/page.php?frame=terms&wrq3ev1=dfb8b3e8782ec0162b084f492c061b06

#8

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Well I know as much as you do. The email I qouted above is all I got from him. But according to what he says, he didnt get any warning and it was the first time.

I can understand having a download limit, but why not just limit the daily amount rather than cancelling any accounts. But this of course is only one side of the story. Will see if Sean Cody has time to comment.

[quote=abostonboy;13480]Are you sure it was the customer’s first time?

“4.3. TRANSFER ALLOWANCE. Your membership is allowed a maximum transfer of 5 gigabytes per 24-hour period. If the Company determines, in its sole discretion, that this allowance has been or is being exceeded repeatedly, Company may terminate Your membership without refund.”

http://seancody.com/page.php?frame=terms&wrq3ev1=dfb8b3e8782ec0162b084f492c061b06[/quote]

#9

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Five gigs is a huge amount of video content. I can not imagine any normal user being able to watch that much in a day. The difference in the terms and what the writer indicates is the ‘repeatedly’ part. But in any case surfers seldom if ever read the faqs or terms. Many believe that they now own all the content in a website for the cost of one months membership and are in a huge hurry to download it all so that they can get it in hand before they cancel. I see more pirated Sean Cody content than anything else so it doesn’t surprise me at all.

#10

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

5gb would be about 20 of our movies… about 500 minutes of video. I can’t imagine most guys could sit through that much porn without… um… er… finishing.

#11

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

Alex, this is not aimed at you personally… But, here we as webmasters go again making assumptions about the surfing/viewing habits of members.

The last thing a member wants to do is wait 5-10 minutes for videos to download when they are horny. I don’t see a big issue for a member to download more videos than he may watch before “finishing”. A member at Sean Cody may fall for three models and download all the videos of each model. Limit broken right there. Depending on his mood when he wants to jerk off, he may want to see different scenes. We make an assumption that a member watches the whole video. I like to watch 69 scenes and some videos may have 1-2 min of that. So, for me to get off I may have to dl 20 videos and put them all in Windows Media and FF to the scenes I like just to get off.

I am guilty of what the surfer does. I download videos I like in a batch and watch the scenes from the videos that I like. If paysites wont let me do that I can hop on VOD and do it…

I don’t feel a lot of customers feel they own the content, but many just want to enjoy what they paid for in a way that fits their “needs”.

#12

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

“the customer is aways right”

We might not like it - but to run a business it is the only way …

Even if that guy is talking out of his A-hole and making stuff up - Sean Cody should keep/make him happy no matter what.

I have many BS emails from “dodgy” members - but in order to keep a good reputation I do give in to them (within reason of course)

Sean Cody should be notified of this thread ASAP!! Instead of people here making assumptions.

I don’t know this company - but I bet there are friends of him here that should do the favour and inform him of this thread here on gaydemon so he can have his say.

#13

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

As long as any site is presented as allowing a member to download (hold in perpetuity) every single video or image inside the site by allowing them to download them drm free as fast as they possibly can, there is zero reason for a “video/images only” site to retain. If I can get a huge pile of video for pennies each, why would I ever maintain that membership. I have had members tell me they didn’t realize that they were not supposed to pass these videos on to friends and post them on file sharing sites. A download limit does indicate that there are at least some rules.

The rampant downloading of videos that may never be watched is too much like the customers at the buffet that believe they are entitled to pile up as much food on their plates as they like whether they chose to eat it or not “because I paid for it”.

Back in the olden days when I would pay to join a site for reasons other than business, I never once believed I had the right to keep things that I paid to see during my membership period. I bought a ticket to see a show for a month, nothing more. I watched what I wanted to watch and if a site required the I download something fully before I could watch it, I would cancel and go elsewhere. If I wanted to continue to have access the videos that I liked, I would keep the membership active.

Several members I have contacted indicate that they often download entire libraries of content from membership sites that allow it. They seldom watch it because there is always new stuff coming along. So they download it, put it in a folder and then eventually dump the folder in the recycle bin or on a file sharing site so they have space for more things they have downloaded. They believe that sites expect and encourage this because “I bought it” It is a form of porn gluttony.

I can only relate what I as an individual have done and what we as a site do. But I very strongly believe that without the limits we impose, our content would not be as valuable in the cable on demand market nor on our other sites. The ultimate monetization of our content is key to us. Were we a download site, there would most certainly be a limit on how much someone could download in a single day.

#14

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=AlexManifestMan;13502]As long as any site is presented as allowing a member to download (hold in perpetuity) every single video or image inside the site by allowing them to download them drm free as fast as they possibly can, there is zero reason for a “video/images only” site to retain.

[/QUOTE]

Sounds crazy but we have nearly a 50% retention ratio. High quality updates do retain.

The days of having an average member stay 6 months or more is long gone. Surfers join sean Cody for a couple months then join Corbin fisher then back to Sean cody. I am sure the same is true with BlakeMason and English Lads. Other sites have surfers that flip back and forth as well.

What can a webmaster really do? Make the experience at their site as best as possible so the member comes back.

When I ran my asian paysite I actually provided a link so members could burn to VCD my content (this was 5+ years ago). The site retained like mad.

Look at HBO. I can tivo to my hearts content, but I have been a subscriber for years. WHY? I like Bill Myers. The same can be applied to paysites. As long as you produce high quality content, provide excellent customer service, and make members feel at home, the site will retain. Regularly updated high quality content does retain.

Now, this is just my belief. I came from a customer service background and may be a little on the customer’s side a bit more than some, but it has worked well for me in the past.

IMHO, the traditional membership paysite model is going to start feeling the pinch from VOD sites. The more we limit access to our content and start protecting it, the more we are becoming like VOD sites without the benefit to the consumer of paying for what they only want to see.

Maybe i am too much on the customers side. But after seeing the 100s of sites that are utter crap now on the gay market, it’s refreshing to join sites that offer high quality content without tons of restrictions. Those ones will be the real winners when the market hits a saturation point in a few years. Those and VOD sites.

#15

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

According to my boyfriend, who sometimes subscribes to Sean Cody, they use DRM. As soon as the person stops subscribing the downloaded videos are worthless. Ergo, this line of reasoning doesn’t hold in this case…

#16

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

One thing we face is we have to compare how consumers think to other things. For example, if someone records a movie off HBO, should they destroy the movie if they cancel HBO? I mean I have maybe 200 VHS tapes in a closet somewhere taped from HBO, Cinemax, etc. I only have HBO. Should I destroy the tapes from Cinemax?

That is the mentality that we have to face. Consumers are use to “collecting” things. It maybe a video they never watched.

I have joined paysites and not watched one video when I was a member. But watched the ones that I downloaded a few months later.

Most surfers just want a good experience at the site. Some may think they need more to get their moneys worth. But isn’t that what it’s all about - making members feel they got a value?

Concerning the buffet - As long as the customer is full and feels like they got a good value, the buffet owner is very happy as he knows the customer will likely come back for more. Rebill!

#17

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

In one way you are right Alex, yes people download full libraries of movies, save them to a folder… But what happens after that I belive to be different from your view.

People do save it, but they do also throw it out like you said, they get tired of the same clips. They remember where they got those clips from and return to the same site, take out a membership again and download more.

It continous like that, they wont stop paying. They might cancel a subscription but if the site continue to update they are VERY likly to come back and subscribe again… Download all of it again, or any new additions… and cancel… and so on.

Porn is an addiction. And works much the same, each addict also has his specific fix… a site, niche or theme. It also means they will always come back if they found what they wanted.

#18

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

They dropped DRM a while back. (New year’s?)

#19

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

[QUOTE=gaydemon;13513]
People do save it, but they do also throw it out like you said, they get tired of the same clips. They remember where they got those clips from and return to the same site, take out a membership again and download more.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I have ALWAYS felt that the best and cheapest form of branding is having someone jerk off to your video after their membership has expired. If it makes your dick happy, they will come back for more.

I hope right now there are 100 ex-blakemason members jerking off to our videos at the moment. If so, i know some will be back soon. They are seeing our name every second they jerk off. They will come back to see what is new.

#20

Re: Sean Cody closing accounts?

All I am saying is this is one side of the story. I’d like to hear from sean cody too. every story has 2 sides.