Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Webmaster Discussion
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#1

[SIZE=2]When did payment processing become all about rates? [/SIZE]

  • Was it a few years back when a recession hit the U.S. economy?
  • Was it always about rates?

[SIZE=2]Are times changing?[/SIZE]

  • Are merchants finding increased value in third-party payment processing providers?
  • What impacts are the new and different ways consumers are buying having on how merchants are incorporating payments into their business either empowering or limiting the growth of the industry?

[SIZE=2]Where is the billing/processing industry headed?
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=4]What do you think?[/SIZE]

#2

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

I don’t think payment processing is about rates, although speaking of them - yours (and adult processing in general) are very high.

Compared to the likes of the “mainstream” industry (e.g. Shopify - 3%, Atos - 3% and so on) and the direct merchant account fees of 1.5 to 5% your typical 12 - 15% processing fees are quite humongous. This I believe comes from the fact that for years all adult companies were kind of forced into using you or Epoch or other well established processors that were specifically created for this industry.

However, ever since the recession, more and more “mainstream” processors and banks started to accept high-risk (PayPal included) at much better rates which, in my opinion, will either force you into lowering your rates + offering more payment methods or you, as many many others in this industry, will become obsolete and go bust.

Yes, times are changing.

It’s 2015 and your software looks like 1998. It’s 2015 and your support team tells me “it’s ok for a biller page to load in 10 seconds”. It’s 2015 and you are not even close to offering PayPal as a payment processing option, even when your main competitor already has it for close to 2 years.

You launch your FlexForms platform yet fail to integrate it fast enough with the biggest / most-used tool for adult affiliate management - NATS.

The most important question you ask is this: “Are merchants finding increased value in third-party payment processing providers?” and the answer is yes, the more I ask around (and almost all top-websites) no longer use CC Bill / Epoch as their main payment processor, more like a 2nd / 3rd cascade backup that is only left there to process the humongous amounts of rebills it accumulated over time. Most people nowadays use direct merchant accounts for joins or process with “mainstream” banks and companies that provide faster and better support, more payment options (PP included) and much, much better rates.

You sponsor this forum but you don’t ever answer to questions from merchants / affiliates therefore trust in your company is lower and lower and you never have a “voice” for the ones that use your solutions.

Even this thread… it’s been here for 4 days and nobody bothered to answer your questions - mainly because it looks more like a robotic-advertisement type of post rather than something a human might ask. It looks more like “Oh we have the power to post a sticky thread on Gaydemon so we’ll do just that and pretend we actually care if somebody reads or answers”.

I am only posting here for other forum members actually as I know there is very little chance of someone from CC Bill actually reading this or it will never make it up the food chain to someone that actually has the power to change things. It’s probably going to end up as a small note on another boring meeting or an email sent to “team@” or “sales@” that will be read, closed and deleted minutes after.

#3

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Really good feedback, I have often asked CCBill as a sponsor of the forum to maybe respond a bit more…

#4

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

I really hope CCBill reads Andrei’s post above. All very good points. We’re very irritated with CCBill a the moment. They’ve proven to be completely out of touch with what their clients needs are.

#5

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

I had a mainstream merchant account and processor for 15 years. During that time, I was “invited” to contact them every 6 months to review my account on rates. During that time, the highest rate I ever paid was 2.1% per transaction plus the batch processing fee per transaction. My average rate overall during that time was 1.68%.

My chargeback fee was $0.50 per. I was given the opportunity to dispute the chargeback even and provide proof of purchase.

Why is it that “we” in the adult industry are not afforded that same courtesy? Lord knows there are 100’s of people that “work” the system and yet the processors just allow these people to continue doing so without question. When I see a chargeback, I immediately look at the account and activity. I can see the dates, how many times they logged in and the content viewed/downloaded and HELL, some even commented on videos and galleries. Others had opened trouble tickets with customer support saying they lost or forgot their password.

The account was open/active for 4 months or more, views/downloads, 3 to 4 login’s every week during that time and yet we can’t dispute the chargeback. We just get slapped with $15 per chargeback and “end of story” like we’re the bad guys. Not to mention the ridiculous and outlandish rates we have to pay processors.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg!

My preference in the sack during my life was as a top. Yet, when it comes to adult processing, you’ll never be a top because you’re fucked from day one.

#6

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

[QUOTE=Andrei - Staxus;158289]I don’t think payment processing is about rates, although speaking of them - yours (and adult processing in general) are very high.

Compared to the likes of the “mainstream” industry (e.g. Shopify - 3%, Atos - 3% and so on) and the direct merchant account fees of 1.5 to 5% your typical 12 - 15% processing fees are quite humongous. This I believe comes from the fact that for years all adult companies were kind of forced into using you or Epoch or other well established processors that were specifically created for this industry.

However, ever since the recession, more and more “mainstream” processors and banks started to accept high-risk (PayPal included) at much better rates which, in my opinion, will either force you into lowering your rates + offering more payment methods or you, as many many others in this industry, will become obsolete and go bust.

Yes, times are changing.

It’s 2015 and your software looks like 1998. It’s 2015 and your support team tells me “it’s ok for a biller page to load in 10 seconds”. It’s 2015 and you are not even close to offering PayPal as a payment processing option, even when your main competitor already has it for close to 2 years.

You launch your FlexForms platform yet fail to integrate it fast enough with the biggest / most-used tool for adult affiliate management - NATS.

The most important question you ask is this: “Are merchants finding increased value in third-party payment processing providers?” and the answer is yes, the more I ask around (and almost all top-websites) no longer use CC Bill / Epoch as their main payment processor, more like a 2nd / 3rd cascade backup that is only left there to process the humongous amounts of rebills it accumulated over time. Most people nowadays use direct merchant accounts for joins or process with “mainstream” banks and companies that provide faster and better support, more payment options (PP included) and much, much better rates.

You sponsor this forum but you don’t ever answer to questions from merchants / affiliates therefore trust in your company is lower and lower and you never have a “voice” for the ones that use your solutions.

Even this thread… it’s been here for 4 days and nobody bothered to answer your questions - mainly because it looks more like a robotic-advertisement type of post rather than something a human might ask. It looks more like “Oh we have the power to post a sticky thread on Gaydemon so we’ll do just that and pretend we actually care if somebody reads or answers”.

I am only posting here for other forum members actually as I know there is very little chance of someone from CC Bill actually reading this or it will never make it up the food chain to someone that actually has the power to change things. It’s probably going to end up as a small note on another boring meeting or an email sent to “team@” or “sales@” that will be read, closed and deleted minutes after.[/QUOTE]

BRAVO!

[SIZE=4]What he said! [/SIZE]

#7

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

And meanwhile I’m not able to retrieve stats from CCBill, always times out through statsremote which is what most of us use to make sense of sales with them. I’ve asked CCBill to have a look at the thread and read the feedback.

#8

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Messages received and thanks for the feedback/comments. We are always interested to hear different perspectives about how e-commerce continues to change. Thanks for taking the time to post the replies!

#9

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Who is the company that still makes money even when a customer wants a refund or does a chargeback?

  1. The paysite/program/producer pays to provide the content. Either produces or buys it.

  2. The program has to pay the affiliate. Yes, in most cases, the affiliate is dinged by the program when a refund/chargeback happens as well.

  3. “We” have to pay the chargeback fee.

  4. “We” still had to pay the processing fee.

Who still makes money regardless?

#10

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Andrei actually wrote what most of us site owners say to each other in private.

#11

Re: Same Old E-Commerce? Not Even Close.

Let me expand on that:

Andrei actually wrote what most of us site owners say to each other in private.
And I admire him for doing it.

I think CCBill does some things pretty well and their people are very friendly and helpful. The people who answer my questions on the phone or in the online chat are helpful and friendly. But I can’t think of a worse website anywhere. It looks like it was written for the AOL browser. The organization is horrible and illogical. And it’s all so slow and buggy! How can a web biller have a site that looks and functions like it’s been around before most of our models were born?

I like the folks at CCBill. They seem like very nice people. But I hope someone there seriously considers what Andrei says because he’s right. Better function and better terms could be good for CCBill as well as site owners.