How dependent are you on Google?

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#21

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

[QUOTE=desslock;70542]Rawtop, others:

It’s not a secret. You will be extremely dependent on Google, that is, as long as you depend on search engines for your website traffic.

How are websites moving out of this box? This is the entire point of social media.

Since attending South By Southwest Interactive, all of my projects with my current crop of websites has been to push them into the realm of social media. That’s going to be the future of how you get readers.

I’d say that a very successful example of someone using social media to generate traffic would be JustUsBoys, because it’s their message forum community that brings people back to their site.[/QUOTE]

I’m all for getting away from dependency on Google, but have you actually tried and managed to generate any significant amount of traffic from social networking? How many sites have you created that have 10,000+ daily visitors without Google traffic?

Social Networking is all hype. Sure you can get some traffic, Twitter gives me a small trickle (compared to other sources) of traffic, same with my other sites. Myspace, remember that? That was all the rage a couple of years ago, now that’s slowly dying. Or what about Facebook? Much like Twitter it’s just about collecting “friends” were no one actually listens to what anyone says. That’s of course ignoring the fact that it’s against the terms of use of ALL major social networking sites to use it for anything adult related.

I’ve never so far used a social networking site to find what I’m looking for online. It’s never helped me decide what product to buy. It’s never given me information about design or any information at all. Social media actually has very little substance or real value in terms of data.

No offense to JUB, but their forum isn’t a great example of Social Networking success. Years ago they bought one of the most popular forums and link lists in existance, linkmeallover.ca. The community of that site was very strong and they successfully carried over that through the re-branding they did. They also rely heavily on Google plus a very large amount of free loaders (TGP type traffic + forum posters).

If you want to look at someone who has done it very well in terms of not being reliable on Google, check out www.menonthenet.com. Their site has been around from the beginning and build up a reputation so strong that they can maintain a link list that contains mainly paysites, yet still have a lot of followers. They have not got high rankings in Google, hardly even seen anywhere in Google’s index. But people remember them, they know who they are and keep coming back. That is something I aspire to. Creating a brand so strong and well known that the name alone makes it self-sustaining.

#22

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Another thing to think about in terms of Social Networking. Where does social networking sites get the majority of their traffic? (apart from the big names)… Google…

The real problem is that the whole internet, at least in the western world, depends and revolves heavily around Google. I do hope Bing, Yahoo or some new search engines grab some of Googles market share.

#23

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Definitely dependant on search engines lol :confused:

#24

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

[QUOTE=gaydemon;70548]Another thing to think about in terms of Social Networking. Where does social networking sites get the majority of their traffic? (apart from the big names)… Google…

The real problem is that the whole internet, at least in the western world, depends and revolves heavily around Google. I do hope Bing, Yahoo or some new search engines grab some of Googles market share.[/QUOTE]

My 2c is the big SN sites like Dailybooth, Twitter, etc., tend to feed off of each other like those creatures that live on sharks. It all began with YT which is now Google, true, but a lot of them seem to have come out of nowhere like Formspring - I’d guess well over 40-50% of their traffic is direct, they create a space where people can live and want to update every day. The scarier part here is that a good number of those sites have no monetization or almost none, which I think is creating an economy drastically smaller than previously needed to survive for a very big part of the internet.

#25

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

[QUOTE=gaydemon;70547]I’m all for getting away from dependency on Google, but have you actually tried and managed to generate any significant amount of traffic from social networking? How many sites have you created that have 10,000+ daily visitors without Google traffic?

Social Networking is all hype. Sure you can get some traffic, Twitter gives me a small trickle (compared to other sources) of traffic, same with my other sites. Myspace, remember that? That was all the rage a couple of years ago, now that’s slowly dying. Or what about Facebook? Much like Twitter it’s just about collecting “friends” were no one actually listens to what anyone says. That’s of course ignoring the fact that it’s against the terms of use of ALL major social networking sites to use it for anything adult related.
[/QUOTE]

In my experience it is not hype. It is all about how you utilize it. And doing it is not particularly easy either.

The key is that you must engage your readers. If you use Twitter simply as an RSS update feed — essentially scribbling 140 character notes onto a piece of paper and tossing them out into the ocean ---- you’ll receive a response that’s appropriate.

The concept is a little different with adult websites, and it’s something that I’ve not yet been able to capture to my satisfaction.

Adult sites tend to involve people who wish to operate discreetly and privately… so coming up with a plan has been very different compared to my cooking website, which has been astonishingly easy to get readers, participation and commissions off of my facebook fan pages.

Nevertheless, I’ve been using social media to diversify away from Google, as well as improve my visibility, further my brand and improve my relevance in search engine results.

Steve

#26

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

[QUOTE=desslock;70584]In my experience it is not hype. It is all about how you utilize it. And doing it is not particularly easy either.

The key is that you must engage your readers. If you use Twitter simply as an RSS update feed — essentially scribbling 140 character notes onto a piece of paper and tossing them out into the ocean ---- you’ll receive a response that’s appropriate.

The concept is a little different with adult websites, and it’s something that I’ve not yet been able to capture to my satisfaction.

Adult sites tend to involve people who wish to operate discreetly and privately… so coming up with a plan has been very different compared to my cooking website, which has been astonishingly easy to get readers, participation and commissions off of my facebook fan pages.

Nevertheless, I’ve been using social media to diversify away from Google, as well as improve my visibility, further my brand and improve my relevance in search engine results.

Steve[/QUOTE]

I totally agree, if you want more return from Social Media you need to create something interesting. But if you run a business you got to look at returns vs time. I really can’t see the returns from spending lots of time writing interesting and engaging messages on twitter.

I use a RSS feed to capture some Twitter traffic, I get 40-80 visitors per day from doing that. But say I would spend 1 hour per day on twitter and really tried hard maybe 200-500? Those tiny numbers are pointless.

Consider the amount of time you spend on that each year… 1 hour per day, 365 days… Roughly 45 working days in total (8 hour days). In 45 working days I can create 2-3 new sites that will grow steadily by themselves and generate real revenue over time.

To run a business you need large volumes of sales. 200, or even 1000 visitors from twitter won’t give you that.

You also got to consider what Social Networking really is. Is the people who use social networking the same people that will buy memberships? I’m not convinced it is. But I’m biased, I hate social networking because I don’t like wasting time on sending messages and keeping in touch with people I don’t even know or haven’t seen for years.

But yes, social networking has it’s uses. It’s a good way of creating incoming links to your sites, getting messages or updates out to followers and a way of reinforcing your brand.

#27

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

I agree somewhat SN can build a (traffic-wise) successful website without people spending money. But that goes back to the question of what makes a website successful? It’s a funny place, well not so funny if you’re in affiliate biz and depend on that revenue, because as a person I really prefer the idea of all the time I put into building a site being put to a place people like to visit everyday and spend time on, rather than just a place to jump in and get off. And back to Google, they’ve somehow gotten as close as anyone to doing both of those things which tbh is not so close. A good question to ask is average time on site – mine are all around 2-1/2 mins or so – and bounce rate, 55% which almost exactly matches that of a non-porn blog I run and a members site I maintain.

#28

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Absolutly. In the end, what makes a successful site is something that people come back to, find useful and like to use… i.e. bookmarkers. But those are harder to get, more people fighting for each one… us.

My bounces… First image is GayDemon.com (link list) and the last is QueerPixels.com (tube):

gaydemon.gif

queerpixels.gif

#29

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

The funny thing about social networking is that it’s largely made up of people with no social skills.

I’ve asked questions on Twitter and no one has answered.

Everyone on Twitter is talking, no one is listening.

Facebook is full of people who won’t pick up the phone or send a regular e-mail, but they’ll send you a hug.

Social networking is designed to make people think they’re really busy and connected when they’re not.

It is all hype. And in a year’s time, we’ll all be saying, “Twitter what?” Because we’ll all be tumbling or something else.

#30

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

I think traffic like that protects us somewhat from things like changes to Google’s algorithm, but I’m not sure it’s as profitable as “quickie” traffic that’s looking for something specific, sees a preview of it on your site, and goes off quickly to a sponsor.

I like the idea that people bookmark me, but I don’t want to be seen as the final destination. I want them to want to see more of what I’m showing and go to the sponsor. So I’m fine with high bounce rates and low time on site. Though I like the idea that they keep coming back to see what’s new and interesting to see elsewhere.

[QUOTE=gaydemon;70589]I totally agree, if you want more return from Social Media you need to create something interesting. But if you run a business you got to look at returns vs time. I really can’t see the returns from spending lots of time writing interesting and engaging messages on twitter.

I use a RSS feed to capture some Twitter traffic, I get 40-80 visitors per day from doing that. But say I would spend 1 hour per day on twitter and really tried hard maybe 200-500? Those tiny numbers are pointless. [/QUOTE]

I do a little of both and it seems to work for me. Most of the time I just let the RSS feeds tweet for me, but then there are times when I’m out at a bar that I’ll do a bunch of personal tweets. Those few minutes of tweeting when I’m out aren’t time I’d be blogging - they’re just when I’m standing around bored in some bar, yet the personal touch seems to make a difference.

No, they’re listening, they’re just not responding. I’ve only got a bit over 800 followers (700+ following @rawtop and 100+ following @studio3x) yet I’m seeing about 170 visits a day from those 800 followers. In other words one in five are clicking on the links in my tweets and coming to one of my sites. That’s pretty amazing and I think it shows people are paying attention. And the number is actually much higher since most of my tweets send traffic to sponsor hosted blogs and galleries which aren’t included in my 170/day / 20%…

#31

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

@GayDemon ouch, lemme get off of the floor. Bookmarkers are imho not so hard to get so long as you beat yourself to death to keep your site specific enough and updated – I’m not as convinced that it’s a Highlander-style ‘there can be only one’ as I have several blogs with similar content I visit multiple times a week. I’d be curious though what sort of interactivity can jump blogs into being more interactive, I mean profiles and such are nice but the fact is a good percentage of users are not gonna help things by posting selfpics and then you run into issues with age verification etc.

@Dzinerbear
I hope that was playing devil’s advocate. Twitter is mass socialization, a lot of these people have 10-20k people @replying them so unless I have something relevant and important I don’t @reply. To deny that kind of strikes me as the Tyrannosaurus looking up in the sky and wondering ‘hmm what’s that big light up there’…I hate Facebook personally just because they seem to outdo themselves with privacy issues and their interface sucks. But none of these sites are going anywhere so long as the money keeps coming in.

[EDIT}
@rawTop to me it doesn’t make much sense to not set up twitter accounts for affiliate sites. Even if there aren’t many clickthroughs, it takes all of two-three steps and then no more. This is kind of like blogs that don’t advertise RSS feeds - Feedburner is easily double the number of regular subs on all of my sites.

#32

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Ouch? :slight_smile: I didn’t mean anything with posting my bounce rates. Your rates are very good, remember GayDemon has got a large amount of archived content of all kind of types. It would be difficult to compete with that. QueerPixels is a tube site so I would be very disappointed if it had a high bounce rate, you’re pushing free videos in their face after all on a tube. But i bet a blog have better sales ratios than a tube!

#33

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

[QUOTE=romancexcore;70611]
Feedburner is easily double the number of regular subs on all of my sites.[/QUOTE]

I’ve never used FeedBurner so not sure how it works. Do you mean there is traffic to be had by using FeedBurner for your RSS feeds?

#34

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

I don’t know how it affects conversion but whenever I do a new blog I add it. Very simple and well its 2.5x number of registered subs, so I would think that translates to sales. There’s a WP plugin for it you have to install manually which is just wget and unzip, then activate and they give you lots of tools onsite. I don’t really get why people use it, only sub’d once to an RSS feed but some people must like it.

#35

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Feedburner is a good tool to use too. However let’s all note that we’re all griping about dependency on Google, and Google owns Feedburner. :grrr:

Steve

#36

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Google owns 2/3 of the mainstream net. So far, they’ve been good about it so I have no complaints, and for mail etc I don’t mind depending on them as it always just works. They have excellent coders and still ffmpeg won’t build VP8 so…we’ll see. A big q is whether Flash gets its act together soon.

#37

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

No, I wasn’t playing devil’s advocate. I’m dead serious. Twitter is having it’s moment in the sun, but so did MySpace.

Have you not walked down the street lately? Everyone is texting and Facebooking. One of my favourite things to do now is walk up behind some social troll who is meandering down the sidewalk trying to walk and “talk” and scaring the shit out of them. I walk up right behind them and yell, “WALK AND TALK!” And don’t get in front of me in a store line if you’re texting. I’m sick of it already and there are tons of people like me.

All this social networking is so popular because people are desperate for a connection, but it’s all a bit like a one-night stand: it may feel good in the moment, but a lot of times it misses the mark and leaves you wanting more, leaves you feeling empty.

People will eventually dial it back.

#38

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

As with many new technologies, I had to go and seek out some adept uses of it first as opposed to just jumping on the bandwagon.

If you are skeptical, might I suggest that you follow @StephenFry on twitter. (or his alter ego @MrsStephenFry)

The most interesting thing about Twitter to me is how it has enabled individuals to promote themselves in ways that they otherwise never would or could. Now some people might know Stephen Fry as an openly gay actor/comedian who starred in Wilde years ago, but he uses the technology so that people follow him, and he really lets his humor and personality show.

How is he making money from it? Well, why wait for years to get another movie break when he can right now sculpt his own personality himself. (Another surprisingly adept user of Twitter: Roger Ebert)

Why will Twitter succeed over something like MySpace? Well, MySpace’s shitty interface for starters is not at all a forum to communicate your project. I think Twitter’s biggest benefit is its 140 character limitation. It’s so wonderfully short and sweet! Remember, Twitter is all about lists. So consider it to be the future of what in the past we might have used for useful lists of relevant website links.

Get it now?

What I have been able to do for friskyfans is use Twitter to effectively get around emails and (very importantly) talking to others in the industry. When I finished my review of Jet Set’s Getting Levi’s Johnson porn parody, I tweeted it, and all the Jet Set guys retweeted it to their own followers, bringing me lots of hits - and in the long run - a nice bit of back relevance to that specific review which hopefully will continue.

Steve

#39

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

If this is all a fad, then why why is Justin Bieber raking in millions? (I’m guessing you didn’t know he got found on YT, much like @3sixty5days and a dozen others) Honestly. Why was it every major world event in the past year hit SN sites hours before MSNBC? Realize ‘those damned kids’ are our customers? Adapt, or…

#40

Re: How dependent are you on Google?

Just because it’s still popular doesn’t mean it’s not a passing fad. Do you honestly think in two or three years we’ll still be Twittering? The way the Internet changes so quickly, it’s just not going to happen.

Think back over your years on the Internet … a few years ago, we were all living in gay.com chat rooms, we used to get all our porn from newsgroups, AVS was all the bomb, we all had Zip drives and collections of floppies, we had printers that sent faxes, and Alta Vista was the primo search engine.

The biggest mistake any company or group makes is thinking that anything on the Internet will last more than a few years. Some might; most won’t.