EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Webmaster Discussion
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#21

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Thanks, but its not about me or gaydemon. I’m in no way saying im an authority or influential, not at all.

What I’ve tried to explain (not very well or politely either, sorry!) is that my concern with any award is what its based on. For anyone to be able to claim to be an authority and give out awards, the numbers and stats are are needed to back it up.

I would only submit my own sites to an award if I knew for sure it would be voted and treated fairly. From what I can see you have had an average of 400-800 visitors per month since you started this award, with such a small group of voters I’m not sure winners or nominations will be fair.

[quote=Marc_Cram;25982]I am genuinely sorry to hear of your personal concerns, Bjorn, and I am sorry to hear that you feel as though you have been cheated in some way - because, believe me, that isn’t the case at all. Indeed, I would like to question how on earth you think it would profit us to deliberately offend or snub a site as important and influential as GayDemon? However, we would like to point out (one more time) that all our awards are the result of a public vote and that they are not based on the returns of some advertising arrangement or sponsorship deal. You cannot buy our awards, it’s as simple as that - never have done, nor ever will do. To some extent this makes things harder for us, but we think that our ultimate survival will depend upon our credibility and that, of course, depends upon us being totally and utterly independent. Above all, we want our awards to be something that are held in esteem and that are worth winning - not just something that someone has picked up for the highest bid. Unfortunately, this will not be achieved overnight; but rather will take time (possibly years) to achieve. We trust that we will enjoy your interest and support in achieving this objective.

Kindest regards,
Marc.[/quote]

#22

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

[QUOTE=gaydemon;25957]Do you think the nominated sites in each category are a fair representation of what sites are out there?

Would you say that the nomination process has been successfull if most of the major and popular sites are not on there?[/QUOTE]

Yes I would. If they do not chose to participate in the process, why should they win? Who is going to make the nominations if it is not open to the public to do so? Some inside group? Perhaps a company that pushes is advertising on the entrants yet never follows through? Perhaps it should be done by webmasters who spend all their time posting on forums yet never seem to produce anything which approaches a commercial or artistic success? Or perhaps it should be done by a group of review sites that seldom update and who’s reviews are so filled with inaccurate information as to be laughable? Why don’t we demand that review sites post the true names of each reviewer and insist that they not own websites which may be in competition with the sites that are being reviewed? Perhaps these writers should be not be allowed to work for any website that is in the review list at any time. Why do we not do this? Because we expect them to be professional in their approach and I don’t know why we can not extend the same courtesy to the EGPA. I know exactly how we got the award we received. We nominated our site and then asked our members and blog readers to vote for us. Simple as that.

We were very excited to have won in our category. We thank the EGPA for the opportunity to participate.

#23

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

their awards are based soley on user votes - they don’t make the decisions themselves and aren’t claiming the winners are based on their expertise.

[quote=gaydemon;25990]Thanks, but its not about me or gaydemon. I’m in no way saying im an authority or influential, not at all.

What I’ve tried to explain (not very well or politely either, sorry!) is that my concern with any award is what its based on. For anyone to be able to claim to be an authority and give out awards, the numbers and stats are are needed to back it up.

I would only submit my own sites to an award if I knew for sure it would be voted and treated fairly. From what I can see you have had an average of 400-800 visitors per month since you started this award, with such a small group of voters I’m not sure winners or nominations will be fair.[/quote]

#24

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

[quote=AlexManifestMan;25992]Yes I would. If they do not chose to participate in the process, why should they win? Who is going to make the nominations if it is not open to the public to do so? Some inside group? Perhaps a company that pushes is advertising on the entrants yet never follows through? Perhaps it should be done by webmasters who spend all their time posting on forums yet never seem to produce anything which approaches a commercial or artistic success? Or perhaps it should be done by a group of review sites that seldom update and who’s reviews are so filled with inaccurate information as to be laughable? Why don’t we demand that review sites post the true names of each reviewer and insist that they not own websites which may be in competition with the sites that are being reviewed? Perhaps these writers should be not be allowed to work for any website that is in the review list at any time. Why do we not do this? Because we expect them to be professional in their approach and I don’t know why we can not extend the same courtesy to the EGPA. I know exactly how we got the award we received. We nominated our site and then asked our members and blog readers to vote for us. Simple as that.

We were very excited to have won in our category. We thank the EGPA for the opportunity to participate.[/quote]

I’m convinced you didn’t mean half of what you said there, or the way you said it. I’ve had a couple fucked up posts myself the last couple days, as has Bjorn. Something is in the air. It will pass.

#25

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

I meant every word of what I said. It is a clear example of how anything can be phrased in an either an objectionable or respectful manner.

But most especially I meant the portion referring to professionalism. It is possible to make demands of transparency of any group, review site or webmaster yet we do not. We expect and believe that they are behaving in a professional manner. It is possible to tear down anything. It is possible to disagree about things as well. I believe it is far to easy to attack. Yet attack is what happens online with great frequency. Instead of being able to say “This is what works for me…” the approach is taken that anything that is not done the way the writer choses is certainly stupid and very likely bordering on criminal or at the minimum unethical.

I really do not understand the way that people behave.

#26

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

alex, after reading your post, it seems that you may be taking a swipe at me. if not, i apologize for misreading. the truth is that the gaydemon review scores - which are explained on the site - are not randomly decided. and i’m not really in charge of those scores, either. they are done by amount of content, quality of content, niche of site. if video is on the cusp between say a 3 and a 4, other features are considered such as whether multiple formats are offered, whether the site uses DRM and whether the site offers both clips and full scenes.

and again, this isn’t open to my personal interpretation - the review guidelines and rating guidelines are written down and based on many things including sites in the niche, and questions are decided by the site owner. what’s more, that tends to be true of any site i write for.

i don’t claim my site is competition to yours, btw, and if anyone told you i did, they straight-out lied.

on the other hand, regardless of my site or even if i didn’t own any site at all, after reviewing over 3200 paysites in over 5000 reviews, and usually more carefully than any reviewers i’ve seen except bananaguide and thebestporn, i suspect i might have some idea of what various sites in various niches have to offer as far as content, navigation, etc.

#27

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Patti, what I am trying to indicate is that without the understanding of professionalism, it would not be acceptable to have any writer of reviews accept work from any adult website. But because I believe you to be professional I would not expect nor believe that you would do anything other than follow the guidelines that had been put in place. I would believe that your own ethics would prevent you from behaving in an unethical manner. This is exactly what I mean. I believe that you behave properly and have no problem with you or your work. I want this to be clear. Because I believe that you are a professional, you would not use your position as a review writer to advance your site or damage others. My point is that it is possible to make anything sound pretty shady. Even when there is nothing but the best possible work being performed.

But in reality I was referring to the faceless avatars that people the biggest review sites. We have no idea who these people are nor any proof of their qualifications yet they are accepted experts. We do not demand to see the CV of anyone that posts advice or holds themselves out to be an expert on the boards.

I believe we should treat everyone with respect until they have proven themselves to be unworthy of the respect we offer.

Again, I do not consider you to be competition Patti. We are two different niches within the muscle group. You cater to the surfer that does not wish to see the models doing the things that our models do. I have no beef with you at all. Even if we were competitors, I would not take indirect swipes at anyone. I support the people at musclehunks even though they ARE our direct competition.

#28

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Gaystoryman :

I have compiled a report based on your requests, and it is in the hands of our CEO Marc Cram as to how much information he wishes divulge about nominees, votes and our advertising structure… You must appreciate that he is a very busy man and will respond here in a timely manner. Your patience is noted thank you Sir.

[B]AlexManifestMan :

Thank you for your support and response to this matter, On behalf of EGPA and myself Personally it really is appreciated !
[/B]

basschick :

Your help in making sense of and clarifying this thread is both appreciated and needed… Thank you for your unbiased input.

Squirt :

Regarding your first post : Thank you for your analysis and the break down.

Regarding your second post : “I can feel it calling in the tonight, Oh Lord, oh Lord, I been waiting for this moment all my life, Oh Lord oh Lord…” Sang by Phil Collins “Something in the air” … Unprofessional response I know and apologize for that, but did not want to make you feel left out Sir.

gaydemon :

Your apology is accepted again on behalf of EGPA Ltd Sir.

Off the record (though I know it wont be) May I personally say and not speaking on behalf of the views of EGPA Ltd…

You question the very foundations of very well established international awards events even publicized on national television, Can you not contact them in addition to this as ask them to provide you with the answers you seek my friend? … I wonder if they will take the time to respond to your good self as I have done so today.

P.s. There has been a couple of other posts in the time I have taken to write my response, So I sound a little off-topic :slight_smile:

#29

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

I guess this thread has at least done one thing (other than me pissing people off ;)), its shown that its a big responsibility and not a small task to run an award. And that transperancy in how an award is run is very important.

#30

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

thanks, for explaining further, alex.

i haven’t spent much time at award sites, but the porn awards i’d REALLY like to see would start out with realistic nomination guidelines and go from there.

i’m sometimes amazed at innacuracies i’ve seen posted on some review sites. i’ve seen a lot of reviewers’ portfolios with reviews that show they don’t know upsells from bonus content, they don’t know anything about videos and when they don’t understand a niche, they sort of make things up. i’ve also seen review sites where 2 sites with the same amount and quality of content have 2 radically different scores, and the differences are unexplained but seem to reflect the reviewers’ personal taste. even worse, sometimes when i ask, i’m told that they don’t have any guidelines, so they just lost track of what they were scoring for that amount of content :frowning:

#31

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

We lost. You suck. :smiley:

#32

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

[quote=AlexManifestMan;25998]I meant every word of what I said. It is a clear example of how anything can be phrased in an either an objectionable or respectful manner.

But most especially I meant the portion referring to professionalism. It is possible to make demands of transparency of any group, review site or webmaster yet we do not. We expect and believe that they are behaving in a professional manner. [/quote]

The history of porn awards sites makes many of us longtime webasters (whether you feel we are successful and artistic enough or not ;)) weary when a new one comes along. I’ll guarantee this is why EGPA didn’t have as much participation as they anticipated.

Through time, and getting to know the history of other porn awards sites, they will do better. I think this whole process from their launch to today, has all been a learning experience for them.

Andys last post cracked me up and I’m liking his personality, Marc was very professional, well spoken, and open to learning. That’s a good combination.

eh I just had a couple paragraphs of a well thought out response to this but I’ll keep it simple. For me it’s very difficult to attack. It’s easy to collect links and post facts, information, and your past experience. It’s a bit more difficult to work things out in posts, in text, on a board, (I rather talk on the phone) but the most difficult thing for me to do is attack.

#33

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

OMG I spit my drink out on the monitor!

#34

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Alex congratulations on the award you seriously deserve it. You know how much I like your work. Job well done :cool:

#35

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

I’ll be sending a new monitor to you right away. That was 30" Apple Cinema Display, right?

#36

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Traitor!:slap:

#37

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Once upon a time ago i worked at a killer pizza place in Philly, we had by everyones consideration the best pies in philly in our area, the finacial district. However there was a contest and it was run by one of the weekley newpapers, and as always i knew who would win, who bought the full-page ad :smiley: Duh! Well, my boss and his wife even though i told them said know quality will come through, and i said no it won’t you will see, well that wednesday it came out and we lost big time, and the winner had the worst pizza in philly if not worse than fucking dominos, but guess whatelese they had, A FULL FUCKING PAGE AD NEXT TO THEIR AWARD! So if they even have little traffic or hardly any, i congratulated them on working with the people if that is how it went down and not fucking ass buys! Cuz that only leads us into worse areas of mediocrity and bullshit.

p.s. Andy is an ugly mutherfucker, but and honest bloke and he wouldn’t lie :smiley:

I know the SOB enough from ANS another quality webmasterboard even if getting small :slight_smile: LOL

ps for you that dont know i know Andy enough hehe he is a great guy :slight_smile: just fucking with him!

#38

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Personally speaking :

Transparency is only for those who invest money and have doubt my friend, Nobody has invested in our web awards so there is no doubt and no loss to anyone… just physical awards that will be sent out curtsy of EGPA Ltd at OUR own expense, May I please add !

In addition to your response gaydemon, We very well do know that any award event is a big responsibility, We do have some experience after all, maybe not years and years… But we are trying to start off as we mean to go along… you being from the UK will understand that statement my friend… Yes I personally applaud you and accept the hard work and success of your website… Very nicely done.

EGPA Ltd’s main problem is we are to fucking honest!, That is why I am sat here responding to posts and working on code updates rather than driving around in the Ferrari that I should have like most other awards company’s have… You still with me here?

Squirt : Thank you for a positive response, If you wish to speak on the phone then I am sure we can accommodate that, not a problem we are very real and do not hide … We also accept PayPal and E-Pass as well as bankers drafts if you wish to sign up to a sponsorship :)… But If you want me to sing then that is going to be extra ok mate whistle

xstr8guy :

Your cheque bounced so no award for you my friend lol (of course that is not the case but only posted for the humor value of it)

Please all accept the fact that I am replying here now on a personal level out of respect of fellow webmasters and this response does not reflect EGPA’s views on a whole…

But to be quite honest that pic in my avatar really is me, And I think Being just a humble programmer and web master that simply made a post announcing an award like many others do here on a regular basis (to one extent or another) without criticism, I see no valid reason for the assault. If we were fucking people over for their hard earned cash then yes, I would expect this.

I will applaud myself for for be being as professional and as polite as I possibly can in the given circumstances…

Never judge a book by its cover,

And don’t visit xstr8guy’s sites he’s a muppet … Just playing xstr8guy :wink: … honestly, better luck next time mate,

Thank you for your support in our new event, I hope you will submit (oooh suits you sir) your site again in our next and hopefully more professional web awards, after all this good advice we are receiving from gaydemon.biz :slight_smile:

May I enforce the fact that was not a company response from EGPA Ltd but A personal response from myself… I know this all counts as another potential nail in our coffin, But I personally work on a honest basis, and speak my mind.

Most respect me for that.

And think that our supporters will not hold this against me or EGPA… Those that do then well…

P.S. BabyMaker

You turn up in the most unexpected of places for sure now F-off I am quite capable of digging my own grave without your help FFS… Luv yah mate :smiley: catch up later.

#39

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

[QUOTE=Andyr;26021]Personally speaking :
xstr8guy :

Your cheque bounced so no award for you my friend lol (of course that is not the case but only posted for the humor value of it)

[/QUOTE]

Lies, all lies! I’ve never bounced a check in my life… in fact I never even write checks. Well, that’s a lie. I do pay the maid with a check every week. But that’s only because she doesn’t take Visa. :wink:

#40

Re: EGPA 2008 Web Awards winners announced !!!

Hi everyone, Marc here again!

In response to the request for factual information concerning the allocation of our awards, I think we have to accept that there has to be some degree of trust here. And of course trust is not something that develops overnight. Rather trust is built up and established over the course of time, and I suspect that it’s going to be several years before we reach the point where our awards are regarded in this light. Indeed, the very fact that lots of owners and webmasters didn’t participate this year is testimony to the fact that we have started (quite naturally) in a position of mistrust. Everyone thinks that there is some sort of con here - that our awards are just as corrupt and ultimately worthless as many of the others that have come along. And to be honest it’s only natural that people think that way. However, I can assure you once again that we shall never, ever distribute awards on the basis of advertising revenue or sponsorship deals - the moment we do that we are basically just like all the others! This might mean that we ultimately make less money, but so be it. On the plus side we will at least be able to hold our heads up high and know that our accolades are worth a hundred of anyone elses, which will (hopefully) mean that lots of others will participate both as nominees and voters. That all said, only time will tell.

Of course, it is not the habit of award organisers to release the information that leads to an award being given - whatever the basis of that award - and we really are no different. However, to show that we are genuine I shall tell you all that we had 4,135 votes for 155 nominees. Also, the voting software that we use logs the IP and e-mail addresses and sets a cookie to prevent multiple voting. As such, the only way an individual could’ve voted twice was to use a different e-mail address from a different computer - and if people are going to go to those sort of lengths to try to win an award then I guess all I can say is good luck to them. No system that we instigate is ever going to be foolproof or 100% perfect; but we can at least rest in the knowledge that our heart is in the right place and that nothing we have done has undermined our core values. I trust that people will give us credit for that and help us create an awards show that is truly worthy of the industry - as opposed to the tacky, corrupt versions that we have so regularly been subjected to in the past.

Once again, I would stress that it is our ultimate intention to produce the “mother of all award shows”, celebrating gay porn from all quarters - be it studio-based or web-based. One step in the road towards this will be the merging of our studio awards (European Gay Porn Awards) and our Web Awards, which may or may not be possible in 2009 depending upon what level of corporate sponsorship we enjoy. Given the current economic climate I guess we have to be realistic and consider this a long-term project, but hopefully the publicity that we have enjoyed here will have helped push our objective forward. For that I must sincerely thank everyone who has shown an interest, be it positive or (in some cases) understandably cynical. Hopefully those cynics will give us chance to prove ourselves - for prove ourselves we must - in the times ahead.

In short, we at EGPA know for a fact that our first Web Awards have not been the super-dooper, no-holds-barred success that we might have dreamed of, but in some respects that doesn’t really matter. In time, all things will fall into place, and more and more webmasters will participate in the knowledge that we are (if nothing else) genuine. My apologies if Andy has sometimes seemed a little zealous in his arguments - he is our equivalent of a pitbull in lipstick I guess! (lol) - but I have known him for some time now and I know that his heart is in the right place. Above all things, both of us want this to work and trust that we will be given the opportunity. Indeed, I hope the day will come when we shall get to meet all of you at some future EGPA show at some future venue yet to be disclosed.

In the meantime, thanks once again for all your understanding.

With kind and sincere regards,
Marc.