Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
rawTOP - Case solved? Really now??
You’re such a total top.
Steve
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
Total tops are a bore in bed unless they have a 9-inch cock
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
Had a 9.5 yesterday. Was kinda yummy. lol
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
For fucks sake can we all just agree on a few things?
- HIV discrimination happens
- All the science says this is pretty much stupid
- PrEP/PEP should be constant
- We should spend more time and money stopping HIV from even existing than anything
rawTOP is not saying anything new or false he’s just stating facts. And it rather pisses me off people without the facts go after him cos even though I don’t know him he’s right. This is the gay community killing off an ‘undesirable’ part of its own just to get accepted exactly like it did with trans and multiple others. Keep narrowing shit down maybe straight people will accept you, that’s not gonna work. Integration has been a total mess for blacks, even smart kids barely have a chance before they’re gunned down. Women too, the 1940 census shows almost the exact same bias as now. Unless you can say someone who’s poz came on to you and you said okay just be safe or just said it’s cool, you have no business here. We’re down to almost none of what can meet the demands of a PR campaign.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
This is just getting silly.
You have to be realistic here. HIV/AIDS is a very serious decease without a cure that will shorten someone life even if they are on the latest type of medication. It can spread from one person to another through sex. If a company or person does not want to put themselves or their employees at risk, however small, that is not discrimination.
This discussion has nothing to do with bareback porn. That’s a entirely different issue. What this thread really comes down to is that Rawtop wants Buddy Profits models to have sex with a performer that have HIV. He wants performers/company to have no choice. While I do promote bareback porn I don’t expect anyone to be forced to participate in it or have sex with other performers that have HIV no matter if it’s safe or unsafe sex. I expect everyone to have a choice.
Rawtop, however much I respect him and value his knowledge and experience, has a biased view. His very public lifestyle choice will make him feel discriminated against by a company or person who choose not to have sex with HIV models. I’m biased in the other way. When I was single and cruising for sex I would avoid partners with HIV because I felt the risk and worry was not worth it. I know for sure that a majority of people would be doing the same, no matter how low the risks are. I’m also aware that I probably had sex with several men who had HIV even if I tried to avoid it. I would have made the same decision if it had been any other infectious decease, that was my choice to take. To me that’s not discrimination, that’s me looking out for myself.
I take those type of decisions every day. I choose what risks I’m willing to take, be it from walking on a busy road, driving my car, eating certain food or having sex with someone. I “discriminate” on a daily basis against all kinds of things and people.
Going back to the original question. Do I have a problem with promoting Buddy Profits because of their choices? No. I’m currently very happy to promote their sites.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
Bjorn - You, like most people, have apparently not gotten into the data on this issue. Condoms fail 5 to 10% of the time (see Varghese et al., Journal of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, January 2002 - I have a copy of it on my forum site and can get it to you if you want me to). The biggest risk is having sex with a person who is believed to be negative but isn’t. People who have recently converted have viral loads that are through the roof. Combine that with “protection” that fails at least 1 in 20 times and the model is playing Russian Roulette. I’m not saying it’s likely they’ll become poz through safe sex - it’s a fraction of a fraction, but the risk is there. That level of risk is deemed “acceptable” and IMHO that’s about right - life is not without risk.
Swiss government researchers came to the conclusion over 4 years ago (and it’s now accepted science) that there was, for all practical purposes, zero risk having sex with someone who is poz, undetectable (for 6+ months with no other STDs). Google “Swiss Statement” for more info. Some have used that to promote bareback sex. That’s not what I’m trying to do here. EVERYONE agrees that ARVs + condoms is the absolute best route and is about as close to zero risk as is humanly possible.
Your a data person - you love numbers… Don’t stop when it comes to data on sex. Do the research, and you’ll see what I’m saying is completely true.
Yes, I personally think someone shouldn’t be a gay porn star if they can’t deal with the miniscule risk of having safe sex with a person who’s confirmed to have an undetectable viral load and no STDs. But I’d be fine (for now) if the studios just opted for serosorting - poz with poz, neg with neg. I get that there’s irrational fear on this issue and serosorting is a good first step. I think what you’ll find is you start with serosorting and you’ll see some neg porn stars start to ask to work with the poz porn stars and barriers will be brought down over time. But you have to start somewhere - you can’t just say “no poz guys”.
There are irrational fears about black people, about Muslims, etc. Those fears don’t justify discrimination against those groups. Why does irrational fear justify discrimination against poz guys? What is it about poz guys which is so much more horrible than those other groups?
Since I’m posting yet another response on this thread, there’s something else I want to make clear. My motivation here is less about hating Next Door Studios and more about having love and respect for my poz brothers. Yesterday I read this blog post a friend posted on Facebook - it’s going viral and it’s an incredible read…
http://www.danoah.com/2011/11/im-christian-unless-youre-gay.html
We live in a world where everyone fears and hates people who are different. If you get down to the data, it’s been proven over and over that we don’t need to fear people who are poz - we can work with them, we can even have sex with them without fear. They’re a big part of our community, they’re a big chunk of our customers. So why do we put up with studios (especially straight studios) who fire and refuse to work with guys who are poz? Promoting those sponsors, making them one of your top sponsors, is not showing love for your poz brothers. Read the blog post and think about what that guy is saying vis-a-vis this issue… The blog post is really quite powerful and puts the issue in a pretty clear light.
It’s 2012. It’s time to end the fear and discrimination.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
This thread is like a twilight zone… why not just put an end to it, because it’s all obviously a personal decision… promoting BuddyProfits… having sex with poz guyz… seriously it’s just plain ridiculous to continue this because there’s nothing new anyone can contribute.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
Been reading this thread with interest and one thing that no one seems to have mentioned (or maybe Ive just missed it) is surely its up to the models/performers if they choose to work with someone who is poz. After all its them who are having to take the risk.
As a producer we dont discriminate against poz guys, however there is no point in me recruiting or having poz guys on our books if none of our neg guys will work with them.
Im no defending BuddyProfits as I have no idea of why they let Mason Wyler go, however if other performers were choosing not to work with him due to his status (and it is 100% their choice), then surely BuddyProfits would have had no choice but to let him go.
Maybe Im just being too logical though… but thats my 2c
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
@MonstahMikey I couldn’t agree more. You can’t force a studio or a pornstar to shoot with poz models if nobody is willing to… unfortunately stigma is, as we already established, enormous…
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
[QUOTE=MonstahMikey;113607]Been reading this thread with interest and one thing that no one seems to have mentioned (or maybe Ive just missed it) is surely its up to the models/performers if they choose to work with someone who is poz. After all its them who are having to take the risk.
[/QUOTE]
ding ding ding. We have a winner.
I’m surprised this thread made it through so many pages without that really being drawn up.
Their are simple practical matters involved here, and even not-so-simple legal matters.
A studio would be obligated to disclose the status of models to their scene parters; a studio would be required to have the models’ consent to reveal their status; the model would likely have to be involved in the process of disclosure; potential scene partners would have to agree to engage in the scene.
Clearly, discrimination against an HIV+ performer is downright silly and just not proper. I will not even pretend to know, in the slightest, the circumstances and specifics of the NDS/Wyler situation, though. I’m not entirely sure NDS has ever made a public statement about it, and statements from just 1 side and party in the situation must always be taken with a grain of salt.
The fact of the matter is, though, when it comes to the production of adult content different rules apply when compared to “the world at large”, so to speak. Simply look at much of what has happened in Los Angeles, with the (now defunct) AIM, with industry HIV scares in the past, and so on. Individuals were “quarantined”. Public health officials performed investigations. Identities were revealed. Personal and private medical information was surrendered to public health officials at their request and demand. Performers were not allowed to work. Did anyone, at any point in those situations that occurred over on the straight side of the industry, ever say, “Hold up though, people! We still have to let this performer keep working!”. No! Not health authorities. No one. That’s the unfortunate reality. In fact, it sure seemed to be those fancying themselves as protecting the public interest (public health officials and other government authorities) were the first ones to demand the performers stop working.
Now, in a perfect world, policies should likely include:
- Full panel testing of all performers
- Opportunities still available to those who test positive
- Disclosure of status, when an issue, to scene partners
- Voluntary agreement on the part of scene partners to engage in scene work with model they’re aware is HIV+
- As much earning potential for any performer, regardless of status
The logistics can be a bit more complicated. A blanket policy disregarding all HIV+ models is not right. But there’s no doubt that, when requiring disclosure and agreement by partners to nonetheless engage in a scene, filming opportunities could be severely limited. Despite much of what RawTop is saying being entirely accurate (low risk with undetectable individuals who are aware of status and thus on medication, especially compared to those who might not be aware and thus likely not taking any medication), you can not require another performer to participate in a scene with an HIV+ model if they do not want to; you’re unable to attempt to reeducate them of risk, the inaccuracies of their assumptions, etc. If they don’t want to do the scene, you can’t make them.
Again, I have no idea what happened between NDS and Wyler but if NDS still desired to work with him, but was simply unable to sustain a sufficient level of production, offer enough scenes, or accomodate the logistics of a situation that had now entirely changed, they really can’t be faulted. If there was a good faith effort to continue the arrangement as best as possible but it reached a point all they could do was film Wyler in solo scenes, then - as unfortunate as it is - things have changed. It’s no doubt a shame - Wyler has to be one of the most enthusiastic, popular performers around.
Oddly enough, in all the years we’ve been producing material, we’ve never found ourselves in such a situation at CF. We do have a policy in place for if one might ever come about, though. Status does not play a part in whether or not we will offer work. No doubt, though, it would alter the kinds of work we are able to offer, how often, and with whom. As those latter factors come in to play, it would inevitably be the case an HIV+ would likely find their own earning potential considerably different from a model with whom status, willingness of partners, and disclosure were not an issue. Likewise, opportunities are simply different for models who only want to top, only want to receive oral, only want to bottom, etc.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
[QUOTE=MonstahMikey;113607]Been reading this thread with interest and one thing that no one seems to have mentioned (or maybe Ive just missed it) is surely its up to the models/performers if they choose to work with someone who is poz. After all its them who are having to take the risk.
As a producer we dont discriminate against poz guys, however there is no point in me recruiting or having poz guys on our books if none of our neg guys will work with them. [/QUOTE]
Actually I referred to that issue at one point but it was a ways back… I can see it slowing things down a bit, but the producer could hire two poz guys, and I’m having a hard time thinking ALL neg guys will refuse to have sex with a poz guy. It sounds like a cop out from a producer who doesn’t want to even try. It reminds me of a time when I was in college and the manager of a private dorm told me “Well, there is an opening on the intensive study floor, but your roommate would be Latino.” I looked at the manager like he had two heads. He couldn’t imagine I’d want to room with a Latino, I couldn’t understand how it could be a problem. Sure, some narrow-minded models may have a problems with it, but others will look at you like you have two heads and be thinking “we’re having safe sex, right?”
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
If only production allowed for things to be that simple.
Many producers work with models who are spread out all over the country, rather than an entire talent pool that is local. If you only had a small handful of guys who were eligible to work with one another (either by all being HIV+, or willing to work with HIV+ models) you’re now dealing with a much smaller selection of guys whose schedules, availability, etc have to match up.
Further, the MasonWyler.com website was featuring an update once every two weeks when things came to a halt with it. 26 updates a year with 2, 3, 4 or even 6 models?
I suppose they could specifically recruit outside of their usual talent pool to find models who they otherwise have not worked with, expressly to film them in scenes with a known HIV+ performer. Then, a great deal more practical and logistical matters come in to play.
- Are even HIV+ models willing to work with that model? Some might not be open about their status, and thus unwilling to be paired in a scene with someone publicly and risk having that lead others to assume or even know they’re HIV+.
- It would be wrong to assume all HIV+ individuals are inherently willing to work, or engage in sexual activity, with all other HIV+ models. There are many HIV+ individuals who make it a point to avoid (what they might believe is) risky behavior with other HIV+ persons through concern over disrupting the effectiveness of their medication, contracting altered strains, etc.
- The other models you seek out to pair with your HIV+ performer must still fit in to the overall theme of your site. If you specialize in a certain look, age-range, model type, etc (all of which NDS and many other companies already do), recruitment options are already limited to those types. It’s not like you can freely choose from any and every willing partner while maintaining the interest of your audience and an ability to sell the videos.
- As a producer, you’re now unable to rely on your established recruitment and production infrastructure, routine and practices and have to go out of your way - to possibly impractical degrees - to accomodate a single circumstance. I can’t fault a producer for finding that unappealing.
As I’d mentioned before, I simply have no idea what occurred with NDS and Wyler (and really, no one posting here really does). If they bailed on him completely out of some kind of HIV-phobia, that is shitty. If, however, the relationship was terminated on account of practical realities more related to production needs, costs, etc… well… that’s business.
Quite frankly, it’s why I’ve always been hesitant to ever build (or promote, when I ran some affiliate sites) individual model-based sites. A performer becoming HIV+ is probably the most far-fetched reason why they’ve never appealed to me. Models sometimes lose interest or want to retire; some get boyfriends who don’t want them in the industry anymore; some may not be reliable enough to base an entire site on; countless personal issues could result in a performer no longer being able to commit to a site built around them; sometimes conflicts of interest or differences in opinion can bring what used to be a friendly working relationship to an end. With paysites, you need to update regularly, and can’t do so if and when you happen to have gotten around to shooting a video. Anything that might interfere with a performer’s ability to shoot enough content, regularly, to maintain that set update schedule could undo the entire thing.
So, it certainly seems reasonable to think they were unable to sustain a paysite built around a single model, given the circumstances.
Now, could they have filmed him in other material? Absolutely. They have other sites featuring action and Mason is still young, hot, looks great on camera, and puts in some damn good performances. In those respects, he’s an ideal performer. This is where none of us can truly know the full story, though. Was there a disagreement or dispute? Did an inability to keep the masonwyler dot com site updating regularly spoil the rest of their arrangement and agreement? Perhaps NDS prefers exclusive models, were now no longer able to offer enough scenes to make exclusivity worthwhile, and so freed him up to pursue work elsewhere? Or maybe they just decided to kick him to the curb. Point being, we don’t know. And it’s a bit much to assume so much or for any of us to take it upon ourselves to say what happened and why.
Re: Can we talk about Buddy Profits / Next Door Studio?
CorbinFisher, Thanks for the insight of the producer’s side of things!
On that note I think we should leave this discussion to rest and I’m closing the thread. Lots of disagreements but also lots to think about. Thanks for everyone contribution on such a difficult topic.