[QUOTE=marcjacob;16581]Fair enough… I have zero respect for Lee but I probably shouldnt have posted any of that, even if I do think its true.
Im very sorry.[/QUOTE]
I think you were right to say what you think Mark.
If something is crap then I believe that people should speak their mind. That is not ‘bashing’ it is truthful. Being fake and giving a false opinion because you’re afraid to speak your mind, doesn’t help anyone and just makes everyone else question your judgement.
One can be honest and kind at the same time, or one can be honest and harsh.
I personally prefer ‘kind’
Lee has his faults and he’d be the first to admit it, but GWW is a good community resource. And of all people, Lee knows that letting a site stay down for 3+ days can kill the traffic near-permanently. It can be very hard recovering from that sort of traffic loss.
Even if they haven’t paid the ISP, it would not be hard to change the domain registration settings and temporarily point DNS to some $5/month host and put up a page that says “We’re having problems, be back in a few days” or something like that. Or they could email all of their moderators and give a short update.
I have to assume that they are simply covered up with keeping the bar running, and maybe a bit cash tight, so the combination of lack of time and lack of funds is shifting their priorities away from their sites. It’s hard to imagine any other scenario that would explain allowing all their properties to be down for this long.
The whole (He Who’s Name Shall Not Be Spoken) drama of the last six months of GWW’s life - without intervention earlier to cut off the abusive user, didn’t help justify keeping even the good parts of GWW.
I never liked the place, I never liked the resources.
This Board, has already proven to be substantially better.
I don’t see that what Mark said was particularly harsh. The only way to be kind would be not to say anything. There is no kind way to say that one page tours are rubbish.
I am having a bad day, but you know, Marcjacob’s retraction was the proper thing to do. No one here, that has said anything, KNOWS why the site is down. Like him or hate him, is one’s own choice to make, it isn’t a reason to cast aspersions on his operation, to claim he didn’t pay his bills, or whatever.
Everything as to WHY the site is down is simply speculation. I had a server issue few weeks ago, the old server seemed to think it should host a site i had moved, so it posted a ‘suspended notice’ on the page. Account wasn’t suspended, nor unpaid, so shit happens. Servers screw up, people screw up.
GWW is down, in an email Gary told Bec it was server problems. That is ALL we know. Everything else is just gossip. :bang:
You can say “Most people don’t like Lee’s tours because they are very simple and not particularly compelling, and his content is nonexclusive and most is quite old. So the sites aren’t strong to say the least. I’ve not heard of many people having success with them, but it must work at least to some extent for him, because he keeps creating new sites, and he does have affiliates.”
It’s factual, honest, doesn’t pull punches, but still gets the point across without being offensive or insulting.
Perhaps we just have different ways of communicating the same thing
Gaystoryman: Bec specifically mentioned Marc criticising the sites and she implied that Mark didn’t have ‘respect for what he has/had created via the GWW community’. A complete over-reaction to what was a humorous comment from Mark.
I’m going to restate what I said earlier in the week. I find it interesting that generally, most of the Europeans on this board (Me, Mark, Simon, Fetish) post more edgy criticisms and they are constantly picked up on it by the Americans.
I think Americans need to understand that the way they do things is not the way that everyone else in the world does things. Their way is not necessarily the ‘right’ way. As I said before, British people are more forthright in their opinions and humour. It might seem ‘unkind’ to Americans, but that’s tough shit. I think there needs to be some attempt to meet halfway?
While some of Lee’s opinions are very harsh and certainly inflexible with regard to the ‘business’ it was/is his backyard. As a host, he is due a certain amount of latitude and respect for that. I know the true story behind many cyber-dramas and more often than not the public perception is totally wrong. Until we know for sure, there is no point in even guessing.
That’s irrelevant to Mark expressing his opinion of CondomCash. And as for someone letting their domain name lapse and only just renewing it in time, that isn’t exactly businesslike? What I’ve seen of GWW didn’t inspire much respect.
[QUOTE=DirtyRatStudios;16667]Gaystoryman: Bec specifically mentioned Marc criticising the sites and she implied that Mark didn’t have ‘respect for what he has/had created via the GWW community’. A complete over-reaction to what was a humorous comment from Mark.
[/QUOTE]
I did not mention marc at all … it was a general comment about the way things tend to get all out of proportion when we don’t have all the facts. What I said about GWW and why I don’t bash it or it’s owner was just a statement of my stance regarding the site, not an indication of how others should behave or respond.
Without GWW I wouldn’t know 99% of you. It is where I conducted business, met and learned from others in the industry, proudly served as a moderator for nearly 5 years and found some fantastic people I’m happy to call “friend”. From where I sit, I didn’t “over-react” to anything.
Marc clearly thought it was a criticism of his post because he quoted your message and apologised. Between his post and yours there wasn’t any other that could be described as ‘bashing’. But there was another criticising what Marc had said. So it was fair to assume you were also referring to Marc.
I was a moderator on GWW in the past. I had a falling-out with Lee and haven’t been back since.
I did learn a lot from GWW and met a lot of great people there that I still consider friends and colleagues. And despite our differences, Lee was very instrumental in my growth as a webmaster.
One must remember that GWW was the ONLY gay board at one time. Gary-Alan and Lee brought together our community and gave us a home where we could be free of homophobia. GD.biz and GMS wouldn’t even exist today if it weren’t for GWW.
Love Lee or hate him… show some props people. R.I.P. GWW
Has anyone ever thought that maybe Lee just wants to see how many pages this thread can go about why GWW shut down? Maybe he has a bet that it gets 1,000 views?
You know, that has crossed my mind too. Lee has always been a controversy whore. Lol. But I honestly think that GWW and CondomCash are done. He would have never let it compromise his business for this long if he cared anymore… especially with the CondomCash sites.
Regardless of how much money the CC sites earned, they were still probably bringing in income. Either they can’t afford the hosting bill or the nightclub is so successful, they just don’t care anymore. I tend to think it’s the former. Lee has never been one to leave money on the table.
After 10 years in this business I can verify you are 100% correct.
Another interesting aspect to cyber drama and reality, in our business, is someone will do one person wrong, they are outed online, but others continue to work with them. Later the others will post ( some anyway ) about the same negative experiences, or even worse.
It’s hard not seeing a persons face when communicating and only having their writing abilities to rely on. Some people have a greater edge when communicating online and it’s not always the person in the right.
I don’t hear Americans here stereotyping others in such a way but so be it. After living overseas the last 5 years I’ve heard pretty much every “Americans are” generalization possible. Eventually people get to know you for who you are and not generalize based on where you come from. Some people anyway.
Well we know they have internet access and have gone 3 days without communicating with any of us or CondomCash affiliates. They’ve made that decision for a reason.
[QUOTE=xstr8guy;16694]You know, that has crossed my mind too. Lee has always been a controversy whore. Lol. But I honestly think that GWW and CondomCash are done. He would have never let it compromise his business for this long if he cared anymore… especially with the CondomCash sites.
Regardless of how much money the CC sites earned, they were still probably bringing in income. Either they can’t afford the hosting bill or the nightclub is so successful, they just don’t care anymore. I tend to think it’s the former. Lee has never been one to leave money on the table. ;)[/QUOTE]
I was partly joking, though it did cross my mind. We can guess all we want. The only thing that one can safely guess at is that a business that is serious about being in adult would not let happen what has happened.
If they can’t afford the hosting bill then I would say the night club is not too successful.
[QUOTE=Squirt;16696]After 10 years in this business I can verify you are 100% correct.
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Boy you should know. Youve spread more lies than I care to remember. Been at the heart of some of the most vile drama Ive ever seen, 99% of it totally untrue… youve involved people in your scummy lies and then turned on them with yet more lies. Now what? Youve changed? Purlease.
Thanks Garry. Yes I did think that, but I dont think Bec was having a go, just defending her ‘friend’ which is cool. Thanks for what youve posted here. To think only last week we hated each other LOL. I also think there is a big anti Brit feeling amongst the yanks but what can you do? Ive heard so many lies even this week, with one person who doesnt shoot content, being accused of filming underage abroad. See above…
Your probably right. Also worth mentioning that Lee is in no way “upstanding” or “honest”, search “Europeon Lee” on GFY to see his past. And yet he has the balls to pick on others acting like the moral majority.
You didnt. But I thought id pissed you off, and becasue I quite respect you, I retracted what I said as I dont want to piss you off. Bec, I dont see what you see in Lee. Youve always struck me as an honest stand up person. How you get the idea that Lee is comprable in character to you is frankly beyond me.
