We recently installed Yoti age verification and as a test, we ran it across all sites in all locations for a day to see what would happen. It caused sales to drop by about 90%. Not only do we have to pay for each age verification, but it also seems to be a real sales killer. Has anyone else experimented with this or had different results? We were running the age verification after the paywall. I have heard of some people having better success creating a special PG tour and then directing them to the paywall with age verification, so thinking to try that next.
Not sure I quite understand that, how did it kill sales if people only got it after they had paid?
I’ve not seen or read about anyone else testing it.
The issue is perhaps also that no one else is doing it, if it would be common practice perhaps people would be more inclined to do it as they know it would be the same everywhere else.
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What I meant is they click the pre-join button, then they get directed to age verification before being directed again to the processor. That is how most of the age verification systems we looked at work.
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The reason we chose Yoti is because it is the most common AVS and if someone has age verified once with them they never have to do it again. So for example if they have ever joined Naked Sword (who also uses Yoti), then they would have a token and wouldn’t have to verify again when they joined with us. So you are correct, if all the adult sites starting using Yoti then people would be used to it and we’d probably see better results.
Got you. I think ideally there would be a G rated tour, and then AVS after payment, when logging into the members area for the first time?
I’m sure I heard somewhere that Yoti would not fly for some US states as their regulations say that the AVS company must be American owned, and that Yoti is European majority owned? But I may have dreampt that.
I think age verification after payment would be better too but that skirts the law. Just like if you buy a beer, you need to show ID before you buy. The whole point, unfortunately, is verify before adult content. But I agree that a PG tour would be the better way to go.
I haven’t heard about the US company law but sounds worth looking into. Honestly though I think if we have a PG tour with the age verification, the AG’s in states requiring verification wouldn’t prosecute us, I’m sure they’d have plenty of bigger fish to fry.
After honestly sounds like a better solution. The whole issue with age verification is that while most surfers have no problem in principle verifying that they are 18+ they DO have a deep suspicion about giving personal info to random companies, even if those companies are a legit body and not the site producers.
After the paywall but before the content would work to mitigate the impact on sales because you’d already have them committed (and given SOME information in the form of their credit card info - which they’re used to already), rather than scaring them off from the get-go.
Expect voids and refund requests to go up for those who still get cold feet, but setting up the join funnel that way would be a far more intelligent way to mitigate the impact on sales and start conditioning adult surfers to be comfortable with new rules around access.
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Thank you for that explanation it makes a lot of sense, we are making some changes to where people in those states will go to a PG rated TGP style tour landing page, then when they join they will pay first and then go to age verification. I did ask and so far there is nothing in the law preventing this flow. Hopefully it lessens the blow on sales, but yes the only concern would be refunds/chargebacks with those that get cold feet about giving over their ID’s etc. but hopefully once they get that far they’ll keep going.
Makes sense, however I really wonder how it will work out if say a competing site is outside of the US, decide not to do age checks … will people go to them, will they get away with it… If so, would simply be based outside of the US circumvent the whole thing?
Adult Force comes to mind here as a good example to watch.
We are running a G rated tour for affected states, join as per normal and then age check after joining
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I asked a Lawyer that same question. Their response was that at the time being, they didn’t think non US companies need to comply with those laws, that it was very unlikely a state like Texas would spend all the time and money to go after a website based in another country. They will be looking for the biggest and easiest targets based in the US.
I’m guessing then in the same way the UK won’t be able to really go after anyone outside of their jurisdiction and considering they are not in the EU anymore even smaller jurisdiction.
The UK might however just block non-compliant sites.
Nope, thats not so easy. Generally US courts would in such cases look if/how you target US customers and what connection you have with US companies to try to establish US jurisdiction over you as a foreign entity. Even the english language can be potentially used as a point against you in a broader context (this is right from a court decision, so not speculative). Xvideos is such a case from this year, where a US court did establish jurisdiction over a foreign entity.
But as you said, they first will go after the big names and also mostly after US based ones. And the ones where people know they can make money with the lawsuit. So the big companies like Aylo or gamma.
Nonetheless, if company is not in the US, you can do a few things to limit the points for US jurisdiction. Like dont use a US company to host your site, dont use US payment provider, dont use the american flag, dont use specific US terms/holidays for sales. Possible but cumbersome.
As we will see Age Checks also in EU, maybe one thing: We at least will be able to go through the EU digital identity framework which will offer anonymous age check for free. From the current state of the project i would guess mid/end of 2025 the earliest. Realistically more like 2026.
The biggest issue with the US Age Checks right now is: The laws are all very different and some even made in a way that you just cant be compliant to what the law says. And they are partially specifically made like this, so that you cant be compliant.
Given that one of the main authors of Project 2025 is nominated as FCC head, i would expect that he might try through that to regulate.
But lets see how the FSC case against the texas law will go.
I just wonder what will happen with all the free porn, with sites without contact, imprint and hosted somewhere outside of the US. They will laugh at US age checks probably.
And you can thank pornhub and the other tubes for this. Without them i cant imagine the push for age checks or the deep interest the payment processors now put into the adult industry.
Honestly, i dont think there will be a way back from age checks, even if the US laws might fall, one just needs to pressure the payment processors and they could introduce this requirement through the backdoor.
I had no idea there was a plan to do a EU digital identity and for free… That’s interesting!
Spain has already a specific app for age verification ready. And the EU has planned for 2025 template implementations for specific categories like financials, documents and more.
With free i did mean that in theory everyone can implement such service and just get certified for it. So i think we might see cheaper options as currently. But one thing will be better indeed and that is anonymity. Not like the current solutions with third parties.
Here more info:
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home
Well anything from Spain I’d not take seriously. They are terrible at implementing anything tech related, nothing ever works and takes years before whatever they launch to actually function.
Thanks for the link… i see though it says:
Each Member State will offer at least one version of the EU Digital Identity Wallet,
So lets see how that goes, not quite the same thing as one ID for all of EU, but perhaps they might all work “seamlessly” together…